Calboy9903

I'm currently have the following ticket booked for 80k miles
LAX-CDG(stopover)-VCE 50k in business
VCE-AMS-LAX(overnight connection)-LAS 30 K in coach

What I'd like to do is change the return to
VCE-AMS-LAX-MEX-MZT
VCE-AMS-LAX-MZT
VCE-AMS-LAX-HMO-LMM-MZT (actually quicker than LAX-MEX-MZT)

I though returning back to LAX may be a problem as it may be considered backtracking, however, it worked in case of going to LAS

There aren't many transatlantic options to east coast, and geting back to LAX is easier.

When I try to proposed routings above the ticket breaks at the return to LAX. Note I can't try the LAX-MZT direct as it's not available for the time I want.

Why can I return through LAX to LAS but to MZT?
Is there a maximum number of segments or maximum permitted mileage?

All three routings can be found on ITA as bookign as once segment VCE-MZT, so why can't award ticket book as one segment?

Thanks

mtkeller

Your first routing violates the published MPM (7650). The other two, however, come in under that MPM and thus should be doable. Have you asked to be transferred to manual reissue/pricing desk?

florin

Where are the MPMs published?

mtkeller

Fare info search on EF, and then click the routing icon at the right of the fare line. (Yes, it'd be nice if DL made these things public, but we know that's too much to ask.)

GUWonder

DL has MPM rules applicable to award tickets and related pricing, and DL has maximum segment rules applicable to award ticket and related pricing as well.

The DL award ticket routing and related pricing practices are unfortunately more customer-unfriendly today than they were even a handful of years ago. This is certainly not an exception to that trend.

Calboy9903

where can I the routing restrictions or MPM or maximum segments for award travel?

mtkeller

I think as best as we can tell, the MPM information for award travel is the same as for revenue flights. This is available in ExpertFlyer for sure, and I think KVS has it as well. Maximum segments seems to be something that's believed to exist, that people have had issues with, but that there's no published information regarding.

HongKonger

Ladies and gentlemen... it's a new world record... wow

You do realize you don't get MQMs or MQSs on award tickets right? LOL

GUWonder

Maximum segments being a factor in award ticket issuance/pricing has been part of information DL published before for internal use and is currently applicable in the award ticket pricing methodology DL uses.

KVS

That is correct -- there is a dedicated MPM lookup/validator function in the KVS Tool.

Your proposed routing is within the MPM limit:

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.5/Diamond - Reference: Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]: VCE-AMS-LAX-HMO-LMM-MZT]

mnredfox

How sad it is that DL doesn't publish it's own rules...

berkeleybum

On the topic of MPM... can anyone offer anecdotes with exceeding MPM? I read TPG's blog re: Skymiles redemptions and he indicated that if you could give a good reason, a DL agent would allow you to exceed MPM by more than 5 percent.

Specifically, I'm trying to go LAX-CDG-JNB-NBO, and it appears to exceed the MPM by about 11 percent. I'd appreciate anyone's experiences with this.

mtkeller

Are you aiming for a stopover in JNB, or is it just that you found availability on that routing? Could you order things as LAX-CDG-NBO-JNB with NBO as a stopover and JNB as a final destination? If you're just trying to get to NBO, there are KQ flights from LHR to NBO and you could presumably find some AF flight CDG-LHR (even if in Y and you're booking the rest in J...it's a short flight) if you found LHR-NBO availability.

(I know that doesn't answer your question, but I don't have any experience, personally. Just wanted to put out some ideas that might help in case you find an agent who decides it's over the MPM and won't do it.)

bmh3s

I learned a lot from this thread (and thought I knew everything about award tix, but this one surprised me). In short, I had found 2 low J award tickets from MCI to BGO, but they priced at 145K each (instead of 100K each). After going round and round, I finally got through to Chisholm agent who researched it and found I had exceed MPM and that results in two separate tickets (MCI-AMS @ 100K each plus AMS-BGO at 45K each). I hadn't heard of MPM on award tickets before, but after reading this thread, I determined my outbound is fine, it's the return that seems to violate MPM:

BGO DL AMS DL MEM DL MKC /05JUL11

************************************************** *******
CTY GI TPM CUM MPM EMS DED LAST NEXT 25M
BGO 2
1. AMS 2 EH 553 553 663 0M 0 0 110 828
2. MEM 1 AT 4534 5087 5198 0M 0 0 111 6497
3. MKC 1 AT 392 5479 5108 10M 0 115 139 6385

Am I reading this correctly that this routing exceeds MPM by 371 miles? I can understand why DL might want some MPM restrictions, but BGO-AMS-MEM-MCI isn't ridiculously out of the way. I'd prefer to connect in MSP or DTW, but the connection times don't work. I assume I could drop one leg and buy a separate ticket for, e.g., MEM-MCI at the end and save 45K X 2 miles? I also assume the best bet would be to switch to a routing that doesn't violate MPM if low award seats open up on one of the connections through MSP or DTW? Connecting in ATL or BOS also violates MPM (I would have thought BGO-AMS-BOS-MCI would be about as direct as you can go on SkyTeam, but apparently Delta has reduced the MPM on award tickets.

mtkeller

How are you routing on the outbound? If it's to BGO, as best as I can tell, it must be via CDG, as BGO-AMS-MSP/DTW/BOS/ATL/MEM-MCI all exceed the MPM. However, there's a ticketed point deduction of 600 miles for routing via Paris that's essential to getting this going.

When I look at the routing rule on EF, it gives

Results from ExpertFlyer.comThis suggests that for some bizarre reason, there's a published routing for OSL-FWA that's being used to construct your MCI-BGO limits. This is clearly absurd, since it leaves almost no valid routings for you. I'd see if they can escalate things and review the full routing rule, not just the MPM, to see if a supervisor or manual issue desk is willing/able to override it.

You mention connection times at MSP and DTW not working out. If they'll let you book the award routing through one of those cities, can you take a stopover somewhere along the way to make the connection work? (For instance, if BGO-AMS is too late for AMS-MSP/DTW, spend the night in AMS and go out the next day, or if your arrival to the US is too late to catch the last MCI flight, spend a night in MSP/DTW. Certainly cheaper than shelling out another 90K miles.)