Oh Delta...you're I.T. is just amusing now...
Jan 4, 2011, 12:54 pm
#46
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DAB and MCO
Programs: DL DM; UA PLT
Posts: 196
That is a picture of the poster/placard they have in the 767 exhibit in the Heritage Museum. One of the many unique and exciting things I got out of the DO in October
** Placard ** Weird how that word has found a use in my vocabulary. I typed it without really even thinking about it. Even though it really doesn't fit for this...I wonder how many non-fliers use the word in every day life.
Yes...I am an idiot.
** Placard ** Weird how that word has found a use in my vocabulary. I typed it without really even thinking about it. Even though it really doesn't fit for this...I wonder how many non-fliers use the word in every day life.
Yes...I am an idiot.
Jan 4, 2011, 1:34 pm
#47
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
right.. because NW didn't have any such systems before.. they just would've had to expand existing. Deltamatic is an all-in-one, but NW ran with multiple systems before quite reliably. you make it sound like they would have to design new systems that hadn't been run/existed before.
By downgrading to DeltaMatic, a lot of functionality was lost internally too. For example, FAs lost ability to book and set their jump seats (as was reported here on FT). Could be done with NW systems, but DeltaMoronic can't do it. Other things that were automated with NW, now with DL have to be done by paper and pencil (again, as reported on FT earlier).
With the downgrade to DeltaMatic, there were considerable internal inefficiencies and problems caused also (simple things now being more difficult to do, what used to be automated now being manual, etc.), not all just front end to pax/reservations/pricing/online functionality.
Jan 4, 2011, 2:22 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
Why has this thread degenerated from a practical criticism of the flawed state of Delta's current IT systems and the failure of their IT leadership to recognize and correct those flaws to yet another "NWA rules; DAL is awful" thread? 
Jan 4, 2011, 3:31 pm
#49
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CHI/MSP
Programs: Delta Platinum, United Prem Exec
Posts: 1,334
It sure seems like you want to pin this specifically on one person (who oh by the way came from NWA) rather than the systems/software itself, or the decisions made at the highest levels (CEO/President, Board of Directors, etc.) when merging the two companies.
Who knows if their already "unified" system from PMDL simply cannot handle the number of passengers on the combined airline or if it's too ancient to handle modern e-commerce transactions, but what we do know is it doesn't work and it appears they made the wrong choice. And they're living (and dying) with it.
Jan 4, 2011, 4:28 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Some place in this wonderful world (usually at 39,000 ft in seat 1C)
Programs: CO Gold Elite / NW Gold Elite
Posts: 13,747
And patch all those multiple systems to work with the existing operations control center, tech ops, etc., which were remaining in ATL, ... you make it sound easy.
Just coordinating the two tech op systems, with one million parts in the combined databases (and which had to be done with absolute zero error) took a year.
In the end, they had to go all in with either one system or the other, and they had to make a choice and live with it. They chose a unified system which was already tied into their main base operations.
Just coordinating the two tech op systems, with one million parts in the combined databases (and which had to be done with absolute zero error) took a year.
In the end, they had to go all in with either one system or the other, and they had to make a choice and live with it. They chose a unified system which was already tied into their main base operations.
Jan 4, 2011, 4:59 pm
#51
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ATL/MOO (Many Others Often)
Programs: DL GM (2MM), Lifetime Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 2,456
The res agent is sitting at the first or possibly second generation of computerized res workstations … circa 1966.
She has her left hand on the RAPAID [rapid action pushbutton air information device].
There was a tub of cards to her left [one is inserted into the RAPAID to the right of her hand] that had holes punched into the bottom for all flights out of and into your city.
There were lights along the left side that indicated flights that were available.
The res agent would push buttons for the date and number in party [up to 4 could be booked with the RAPAID] that lined up with the available [lights on] flight[s] desired.
The IBM Selectric typewriter [under her arm] would type out a line for the confirmed flight[s].
The agent would type in all passenger information.
At the end, a summary could be typed out to recap to the passenger.
Then the agent would ‘end transaction’.
Quite an advancement from the handwritten cards in 1964, that depended on flight availability kept by Reservations Control [manually] in Atlanta. All reservations were teletyped to RC in ATL [ATLRCDL] and ATLRC would teletype flight availability [actually, non-availability] of all flights. Availability was posted on a wall-sized board. Flight irregularities also came by teletype and were posted manually on another board.
Availability checks on any other carrier, like Braniff, TransTexas, Piedmont, PanAmerican, and the many other vanished brands, required a phone call to the airline’s res office [spending a lot of time on hold].
Flights schedules and connections had to be put together manually by the agent, using the OAG Official Airline Guide … requiring knowledge of the connecting airports layouts and minimum connecting times.
Flights were closed out manually after departure, with the gate agent calling off the name on each ticket pulled … and a res agent checking them off the departure manifest [assembled manually by the teletype agent].
Oh the joy!
There was so much more … and it was so much less.
Jan 4, 2011, 5:27 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
Wrong, I'm simply looking at documented, factual results under the current iT leadership. The IT experience (mostly on-line) for customers has dramatically worsened since the merger. By all accounts, the former NWA website was very well-liked by former NWA customers, and apparently fairly reliable, stable and feature-rich. In the same vein, while it had it's problems, the Delta website and ancillary IT systems (such as GIDS, gate scanners, etc) were relatively stable, reliable, and offered beneficial features (such as instant posting of flights and mileage to SkyMiles accounts).
Now, under the current IT leadership, former NWA customers have lost features and capabilities they valued and were used to, and the stability, reliability, usability, and feature set has decreased for both former NWA customers and former Delta customers. I don't care whre the IT VP came from - It's not germaine to the discussion. The point is that the entire IT experience for customers has worsened under the individual's leadership and it's time for that individual to accept responsibility for these failures. It's also time for Delta's leadership to recognize that this individual clearly is not capable of executing the most basic, fundamental aspects of their job - namely providing a reliable, effective IT experience to Delta customers.
Now, under the current IT leadership, former NWA customers have lost features and capabilities they valued and were used to, and the stability, reliability, usability, and feature set has decreased for both former NWA customers and former Delta customers. I don't care whre the IT VP came from - It's not germaine to the discussion. The point is that the entire IT experience for customers has worsened under the individual's leadership and it's time for that individual to accept responsibility for these failures. It's also time for Delta's leadership to recognize that this individual clearly is not capable of executing the most basic, fundamental aspects of their job - namely providing a reliable, effective IT experience to Delta customers.
Somebody's head probably needs to come off at this point, but unless Delta commits to truly updating the systems, it's unlikely that new IT leadership will do much good. Delta always seems to go for the short-term gains.
Jan 4, 2011, 5:35 pm
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The best state in the USA - Florida!
Programs: Marriott Titanium/LT Plat, AS MVP75K, AA PlatPro, UA Premier, Disney AP
Posts: 14,497
Delta's IT has been screwed up for a long time. Anyone remember Josh's presentation at the 1st DL/ATL DO ~1.5 years ago? That was in response to the complaints that were being made almost 2 years ago. Basically nothing has improved, and it seems to be cracking under the strain of ever increasing demands.
Somebody's head probably needs to come off at this point, but unless Delta commits to truly updating the systems, it's unlikely that new IT leadership will do much good. Delta always seems to go for the short-term gains.
Somebody's head probably needs to come off at this point, but unless Delta commits to truly updating the systems, it's unlikely that new IT leadership will do much good. Delta always seems to go for the short-term gains.
Now that the hard part of the merger is done, attention can be paid to the softer stuff, like getting a website that runs better, stuff like improved experiences on the ground and in-air, etc. All the breakrooms, DeltaNet, etc. are all saying this is the "year of the customer". I'm told you can't escape from seeing the stuff even if you tried. Now whether or not this is marketing fluff or not is TBD (we can assess the campaign on Jan. 4 2012), but that is what is being preached right now at the minimum.
Jan 4, 2011, 5:48 pm
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
As was noted at the DO this year by Richard, the goal of the operation over the past 18 months while undergoing the merger was to have something that would get the job done. Might not get the job done perfectly, but something that would allow the airline to run as one airline instead of two.
Now that the hard part of the merger is done, attention can be paid to the softer stuff, like getting a website that runs better, stuff like improved experiences on the ground and in-air, etc. All the breakrooms, DeltaNet, etc. are all saying this is the "year of the customer". I'm told you can't escape from seeing the stuff even if you tried. Now whether or not this is marketing fluff or not is TBD (we can assess the campaign on Jan. 4 2012), but that is what is being preached right now at the minimum.
Now that the hard part of the merger is done, attention can be paid to the softer stuff, like getting a website that runs better, stuff like improved experiences on the ground and in-air, etc. All the breakrooms, DeltaNet, etc. are all saying this is the "year of the customer". I'm told you can't escape from seeing the stuff even if you tried. Now whether or not this is marketing fluff or not is TBD (we can assess the campaign on Jan. 4 2012), but that is what is being preached right now at the minimum.
You call this "running"? I don't.
There's a difference between unnecessary improvements that can be deferred until the merger is completed and the basic necessities that are needed to conduct business.
This is every bit as bad as US Airways IT meltdown.
Jan 4, 2011, 6:12 pm
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Under an ORD approach path
Programs: DL PM, MM. Coffee isn't a drug, it's a vitamin.
Posts: 12,935
Not even close. Three years after their merger they were still running two completely separate systems, one for each pre-merger company.
OTOH, we all know that CO and UA will do a perfect seamless merger, it will all switch over beautifully overnight, with CO taking the lead in every customer oriented aspect of the operation.
OTOH, we all know that CO and UA will do a perfect seamless merger, it will all switch over beautifully overnight, with CO taking the lead in every customer oriented aspect of the operation.
Jan 4, 2011, 7:16 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
In any case, I don't see this as a merger issue. It's been > a year since they merged the web sites & operations systems. The recent issues appear to be problems with network operations (can't handle the recent loads) and lack of disciple & testing when software changes are made.
Last edited by MikeMpls; Jan 4, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Jan 4, 2011, 8:32 pm
#57
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
I was responding to the prior post that specifically referenced that Delta's IT VP came from NWA. I chose the DC-9s simply because they were the oldest aircraft in Delta's fleet. If Delta had any 707s left in the fleet, I would have used ... oh, forget it
Jan 4, 2011, 8:40 pm
#58
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
I fault the CIO for not not maintaining focus on delivering core IT solutions that work. I really don't care about the underlying technology or where it came from. People seem bent on trying to blame technology choices. It doesn't matter - they could have made the technology decision to outsource everything to SAP for all I care. The only thing that matters are the results that were delivered and those results are awful and continue to deteriorate, not improve, over time. That is symptomatic of the failure of the IT leader.
Jan 4, 2011, 9:45 pm
#59
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DAB and MCO
Programs: DL DM; UA PLT
Posts: 196
Really great stuff.
sterno
Last edited by sterno24; Jan 4, 2011 at 10:02 pm
Jan 5, 2011, 8:18 am
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Under an ORD approach path
Programs: DL PM, MM. Coffee isn't a drug, it's a vitamin.
Posts: 12,935
Getting back to the premise of the OP, something odd and not good has happened with Delta.com, and I suspect it would have happened no matter what platform they built it from. (i.e. it doesn't matter if they based this new site on Delta.com or NWA.com, the results would be the same)
Pre-merger delta.com generally worked well. Yes, the award calendar was broken (which may have been deliberate), and we couldn't search revenue tix as well as we wanted, but it basically worked. There was a huge wish list of new capabilities and features, many of which they're now trying to implement. That may be the root of the problem.
They've been doing all sorts of changes and updates, adding new things, removing old things, and stuff keeps breaking. I assume they have an overall map of where they were and where they want to go with the site, but the path to get there keeps generating giant potholes.
I've worked on building and revamping relatively simple websites with small traffic (200 users/day). I'm sure some of you have worked on sites as big as Delta; is what they're trying to do really that difficult, and is it typical to go through these types of failures and take this long to accomplish a major overhaul?
Pre-merger delta.com generally worked well. Yes, the award calendar was broken (which may have been deliberate), and we couldn't search revenue tix as well as we wanted, but it basically worked. There was a huge wish list of new capabilities and features, many of which they're now trying to implement. That may be the root of the problem.
They've been doing all sorts of changes and updates, adding new things, removing old things, and stuff keeps breaking. I assume they have an overall map of where they were and where they want to go with the site, but the path to get there keeps generating giant potholes.
I've worked on building and revamping relatively simple websites with small traffic (200 users/day). I'm sure some of you have worked on sites as big as Delta; is what they're trying to do really that difficult, and is it typical to go through these types of failures and take this long to accomplish a major overhaul?