mooper

To demonstrate fraud or justify accusations of a scam, they'd need to be intentionally misleading the customer, not merely doing a poor job of being clear. This doesn't mean that customers have to agree my interpretation - clearly you and many others don't. Rather, they'd have to be getting duped by language that is explicitly promising something not provided. If the language was to the effect of all AILUT fares being eligible, that would be one thing, but in no way does it make that offer.

Even if so, it wouldn't meet the standard of fraud. No interpretation asserts they are promising all AILUT fares are eligible; the very nature of the word "limited" involves restriction.

Unless I missed it, mother nor anyone else has cited "limited to" language. It is "limited in". As you point out, that makes a big difference. "in" can only be a subset (limited) within them, with AILUT being the boundaries.

Of course, trumping any confusion is the *additional* clarifying language:

Nothing vague there. To whatever degree flights are limited in AILUT, they still may not be available on all flights or markets and there are only certain fare basis codes that apply.

bdschobel

We can parse these sentences till the cows come home, but one fact is probably indisputable: Every single one of us was surprised to learn (whenever and however we did) that even though an eligible fare may be available in the necessary quantity of two, the certificate may nevertheless be rejected for use. I know that I was surprised. I called Delta, and the reservations agent and I tried to figure out what was going wrong. It was very far from obvious that only certain "AILUT" fares qualified. So you can go on about how that should be clear, or Delta's language passes legal muster. Maybe you're even right about that, but to the typical consumer, it comes as a surprise. And Delta, in my humble opinion, is intentionally misleading people into believing that the companion certificates are more useful (and therefore more valuable) than they really are. That's why I have agreed from the beginning that it's pretty much a scam. And I'm a Delta loyalist, not a constant complainer.

Bruce

mother-

I think, once again, the vast majority of people here disagree with you. You're also inventing the ground rules for calling something 'fraud' or a 'scam'. Just like you invented your strict interpretation of the word 'in'.

Well apparently it is vague because, while you may go to lengths to do it, you come away with a completely different "interpretation" of what that means than many of us.

(You seem to just ignore when more reasonable ways to parse those words are explained to you. I still don't understand what your level of blind devotion to DeltAmex is about here...)

Oh and because you seem to have missed this part:
In my case the issue wasn't that there weren't tickets available on my specific flights or markets, it's that the tickets that were acceptable for voucher use were more than twice the price of the cheapest discounted tickets available.
When you sell people a BOGO voucher and then require them to purchase a fare >2x as expensive to use it, that is most definitely dishonest. In any other situation you would call someone selling such a con artist.

Indeed. I'm not a Delta loyalist, but I'm also not a constant complainer. I pay for a reserve card and fly around largely in paid F/J when traveling on my own dime. In this instance I was trying to fly myself and my parents out to visit my sister in paid F/J.

I only expected to use the certificate for what I was told it was. The pitch is, literally, "Receive a domestic first class or economy class companion certificate each year upon renewal." Since we here know to read the rules, I did that. Absolutely nothing prepared me for what Delta did to me.

bdschobel

When you have to pay more -- sometimes a lot more -- for the paid ticket in order to use the "free companion" certificate, then something is wrong. And since Delta makes the rules, it seems fair to put the blame on Delta.

As I said before, several times, I have actually managed to use these certificates -- every one of them since they started being offered. But it always leaves kind of a bad taste in my mouth when I have to buy a more expensive ticket in order to use the cert. Just my 2 cents.

Bruce

gooselee

mother- quoted terms from his/her cert with the "limited to" language earlier up thread. I believe someone else did also a few posts later, but I'm writing on my phone so that's just IIRC.

I should also clarify that I think that the "in" language commonly implies the subset definition, but personally I stop short of that being the only way to interpret it.

My biggest thing here is that the T&Cs should be much clearer and also consistent everywhere they are published. Then we'd just be talking about how the T&Cs are too restrictive instead of having to define prepositions.

mooper

I agree with all of the above. To be clear - I'm primarily refuting the baseless claims of fraud, which are a serious legal matter. I'm *not* suggesting the terms are clear as day or shouldn't be improved. They make sense to me (especially the parts that are explicit in saying that not all flights, fares qualify), but I understand that the majority gets confused. Delta should improve the transparency, but shouldn't be accused of scamming, as the title of this ridiculously suggests.

bdschobel

Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with you here. As someone who has managed -- somehow! -- to use each and every companion certificate that I have earned, I can hardly call the program a scam. I've been able to utilize it, notwithstanding the surprises lurking in the obtuse terms and conditions. I suppose if I were a Delta moderator, I might retitle the thread something like this:

"Surprises lurk in the terms and conditions for AMEX companion certificates"

Bruce

NCLSEA123

Just saved around $650 on a flight from Atlanta to Sun Valley leaving in late December, coming back in early January using my $99 Gold cert. EMB 120 here I come!

CalVol

I just checked if I could use my cert to take my daughter with me to my grandmoter's funeral this week. Surprisingly, there is availability on a $1000 "L" fare to GSP.

mooper

What a scam!

gooselee

Sorry for your loss. You may want to call and ask about bereavement fares. While I don't believe they technically apply to great-grandchildren, you may find an understanding agent since you are also going.

mooper

In a situation where the fare is already $1K, a bereavement fare is unlikely to be cheaper than what would be saved by using the cert.

I second the condolences.

gooselee

Ahh, good call. For some reason my brain didn't fully process that using the cert gets 2 tickets for $1k (which, obviously, is the point of the cert).

GatorBlues

I'm pretty happy with our Delta AMEX certs.

My wife and I went to Houston a few weeks ago with a Delta AMEX cert from my business card that was otherwise close to expiration. Saved $350.

We just booked another trip to Missouri, wife and one child using her cert and me and the other child using my personal card cert. Saved over $400 per kid, with total savings close to $900.

As for the $1K fare for each ticket to a funeral, you are actually getting the most valuable use of a cert possible. You have to go no matter what the price, the fares are what they are, and you're able to slice in half an otherwise huge price for two tickets.

CalVol

Me too!! That $150 fee for a $1k+ ticket was money well spent.

I was surprised to see a domestic "L" fare for that price.

And, thanks for all the condolences. She had 99+ years and 98 of them were pretty darn good.