BizJet

Now that five months have passed since SOC, I was just curious as to the status of DL/NW crew and fleet integration.

My understanding is that, until the AFA union vote process is completed, there is no mixing of PMDL and PMNW FA crews. Is that right? Does that mean that all pre-merger domiciles are still intact? In other words, the DTW, MSP, etc., base is all PMNW, and the ATL base is all PMDL? What about bases in which both airlines had domiciles (e.g., BOS and SFO) — have they integrated in-flight leadership at those bases but are maintaining separate lines of flying for PMDL and PMNW crews?

Now that aircraft routings are getting more integrated, can any FA crew fly any Delta aircraft? e.g., DTW-HKG on the 777LR are served by PMNW crews, and the A330s flying to Europe out of ATL and JFK are served by PMDL crews?

What about the pilot groups? Have they been integrated? e.g., could a PMNW pilot upgrade to the 777 and/or transfer to the ATL base?

I seem to recall that a contract agreement requires that PMNW FAs always fly with PMNW pilots? Is that the case?

Just curious how crew integration is working, especially now that the aircraft rotations are getting much integrated than back in the limited pre-SOC "cross-fleeting" days. e.g., many 737s flying DTW both east and west, the MD-90s popping up out of MSP, extensive use of the Airbus out of SLC and CVG, and PMNW 757s creeping into the ATL flows.

mersk862

To the first point, all flight attendants should be cross-trained by now. The new 777 DTW-Asia flying should be crewed by the DTW F/A base, and the A330 ATL flying (at least) done by the ATL base (not sure about JFK, as NW had a crew base there as well).

Pilot groups have been integrated, and the first case of a combined flight deck occurred earlier this year, with a PMNW 757 Captain and a PMDL 757 FO flying together out of MSP (the PMDL FO had transferred to the MSP base to hold a 757 line). Pilots are free to bid for whatever; however, a PMDL pilot cannot bid for a 747 line and a PMNW pilot cannot bid for a 777 line until 5 years after SOC (this fencing was part of the agreement with ALPA).

I do know that mixed crews are flying now though; last month I had a MSP-based 757 flight deck crew that were PMNW, and an ATL-based cabin crew that were all PMDL.

MSPeconomist

As early as last June, there were formerly NW routes out of MSP that were staffed by DL crews--for example, the seasonal 767 service to CDG, due to the equipment that was used in 2009. In addition, the MSP-ATL route was switched totally to DL aircraft pretty early in the merger process.

So far I've been able to easily guess whether the FAs are PMNW or PMDL; they have different styles of interacting with passengers in general, even if regional accents aren't in evidence. The welcome announcements always used to indicate where the crew was based, but I don't think I've been hearing that information recently, although sometimes I ask.

For the FAs, it's a lot of different aircraft to know as well as modified services now for everyone. I assume that every FA must be qualified on every plane, even planes that don't fly from their base. Is this correct? And I assume it's also correct that every DL FA is trained to do FC and BE (although I know some implicitly specialize), in contrast to the way most foreign carriers only train a subset of excellent and experienced FAs for premium cabin service, including wines.

rwoman

I assume there are still some separations due to pre-merger differences based upon union/non-union FA's?

I flew MSP-LHR on Tuesday evening and, in passing one of the FA's, they were telling the ground staff that they were to have plastic gloves, per PMNW agreements.

dd93003

This thread subject always turns out well.

I'll pop some popcorn.

ClipperDelta

For the FAs, it's correct that PMNW and PMDL cannot work together on the same flight. However, since May 1, on international flights, they have been able to work each other's aircraft. All the satellite FA bases that were created during the initial stages of cross-fleeting (e.g., PMNW in ATL, PMDL in DTW) have been abandoned, so DTW is now all PMNW FAs, and ATL is back to all PMDL. So the DTW-Asia 777 flights are now being flown by PMNW FAs and the ATL-Europe A330s are being flown by PMDL FAs.

For bases which were both PMDL ad PMNW, the flying is split. E.g., in NYC, where PMDL FAs number in the thousands compared to PMNW's 250+, PMDL FAs are flying the A330s to ATH and FCO, as well as the 744s to NRT and TLV; PMNW FAs, I believe are doing some other TATL routes such as AMS or MAN from JFK.

In the first month (May) when PMNW FAs started flying PMDL aircraft and vice versa, they did have an FA from the side that 'owned' the aircraft flying with them to help. For example, on my JFK-ZRH PMNW 757 flights, even though the FAs were PMDL, there was a PMNW FA on board to help with certain things (e.g., the video equipment, the galley set-up, etc.). However,these were technically "non-working" FAs (per the PMNW contract) - these guys were in uniform only at the beginning and end of the flight; during the flight, they changed into civies and could take a seat in the BE cabin.

ClipperDelta

Before the merger (or even some time before then), PMDL FAs were not required to be qualified on every aircraft in the PMDL fleet. For example, till this day, there are still some PMDL FAs who are not trained on the 777, even though they are now qualified on every PMNW aircraft, and every PMNW FA is now qualified on the 777.

PMDL FAs on international BE flights work the premium cabin one way, and work the Economy cabin the other way. Only exceptions are the Purser (BE) and Customer Service Coordinator (in Y) who stay in their respective cabins. Not 100% sure, but PMNW FAs, I believe work the same cabin both ways.

MSPeconomist

Do the FAs choose not to receive the 777 training or does DL decide who gets to fly the 777s? this would lock them out of some interesting routes. It also sounds like DL could be requiring more of the PMNW FAs (who must be 777 qualified) than the PMDL FAs, and possibly setting up more of the PMNW FAs for the better long haul routes. I'm not sure it's fair.

Does this imply that every DL flight has equal numbers of FAs in BE as in coach? I would have thought that the ratio would vary slightly with the aircraft and load factors.

My impression is that many of the senior PMNW FAs specialized in WBC and now BE, although many of these individuals are also purser trained. Most TATL/TPAC flights on the NW side have not only the assigned purser in charge but several others that could do purser duties but actually just serve as one of the BE FAs. I know some PMNW FAs who even say that they always do upper deck on the 747 to NRT. Similarly, I've seen some last minute substitutions and holiday weekend WBC FAs who seemed very ill at ease, not confident and not happy about doing the biz service. Some frankly don't like dealing with biz passengers. Depending on loads, I've even very rarely seen the purser helping out in coach mostly rather than doing the forward left section of BE. AFAIK, once it's determined who are the FAs for a flight, they pick positions based on seniority, so normally if it's exactly the same crew (like for TATL), I would logically expect them to do the same positions in both directions.

Note that on the NW flights to Asia, normally NW sends the purser and one FA on a longer trip including an intra-Asian RT (or even sometimes two?) before they return from NRT. So the purser changes for the return trip as well as one quite senior FA. The rest of the intra-Asian flight cabin crew are Asia-based NW FAs who are much cheaper. The TPAC translaters are also Asia-based, but their job descriptions are different from regular FAs, almost closer to being a purser: in addition to making announcements, they welcome and thank BE customers, take meal orders in BE, serve the BE Asian meals, serve tea in BE, frequently serve the bread and wine in BE, clean/tidy the BE lavs between passengers, pass out customs/immigration forms and answer questions, etc. (They seem to work hard.) At one time, the translaters changed into kimonos in flight (which they hated) for FC, but this practice was stopped a few years before NW eliminated real FC on the TPAC 747s. I've never observed what the translaters do in coach, but I would guess beverage runs rather than meal trays.

fromYXU

Is it more appropriate now to refer them as DTW- or ATL-based FAs?

mersk862

My guess is it has to do with crew bases. PM-Delta has primary bases in a minimum of Boston, New York, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Orlando, Salt Lake, Los Angeles and maybe more. Given that Delta (until last summer) only had 8 777s or so in the fleet, it was extremely limited, and only flew out of ATL and JFK. Given that the BOS/MCO/SLC/LAX/CVG bases wouldn't be seeing any 777 lines, there was no need to train them on those planes. On the other hand, all of those markets saw all types of the Delta fleet (the -88/90, 737, 757 and 767) on a regular basis (graned, BOS/MCO don't see the 767 scheduled anymore, but they do pop in on occasion still and did get regular service until a couple of years ago).

MSPeconomist

This would largely be my guess too, but it also wouldn't necessarily make sense for every DL FA based at ATL, for example, to know the 777, because it's such a small fraction of the flights. So then the question is, for ATL-based FAs, do all learn or have the opportunity to learn to 777? Or are some of them chosen somehow? At ATL, the training might just be a day near the airport but for other stations, there would be the cost of flying them in for the training and continuing additional recertification. Are these paid training and travel days for the FAs?

ILUV767

Anyone know when the union vote will be for the flight attendants?

socrates

Ugh...how dare you pop popcorn....NWA always gave us fresh fruit before DL made things works and forced us to have candy