AndyTLe

Just curious, how much does something like that run?

secretive!

Do you really think it's a good idea to wait MORE than 3 hours in the plane under any circumstances??? How long is too long???

reamworks

I'd rather sit on a plane for three hours (or more) and get where I need to be if there's weather and many flights are disrupted, etc.

AndyTLe

3 hours isn't long enough. I'd rather have the airline, rather than the government, make the decision. To me, it is better to try to get the plane out, albeit late than cancel the flight and sleep in the airport.

Example: A 764 JFK-LHR around the holidays. A snowstorm has limited operations at JFK. With de-icing and ATC controls, you could only have 1 shot for a departure slot before hitting the 3 hour mark. Fine, after waiting to de-ice and ATC, DL cancels the flight at 2:50. The 240+ pax are off-loaded and get to spend the night in the DL terminals at JFK. Since it is weather or ATC, no need to provide compensation, food or hotels. Since it is the holidays, alternative flights won't be able to accomodate everybody until 3-5 days after the original flight. Then there's also the problem of the people in LHR waiting for their ride back to JFK.

Why not let DL load everybody up, head to the de-icing line then the penalty box and hope for a shot to leave? We all know that this process at JFK takes a long time and 3 hours isn't sufficient. To me, it is better that I'm 4, 5, 6 hours late to where I'm going rather than be stuck at the airport terminal.

jiejie

Is it possible we have a difference of opinion along the lines of cabin being flown? As in, those flying first/biz are more likely to be willing to sit on the tarmac, compared to those flying coach who often have much more unbearable conditions to endure, and who'd rather sit it out inside a building rather than a metal tube? I can see where my own opinion might flip-flop depending on flight, aircraft, full vs not, flexibility of my plans, and whether I was up front or back of the bus.

Davescj

I have always used my AMEX CC and bought the insurance through them. I can only speak to my experience, but I've never had a problem with a claim.

AndyTLe, in principle I agree. I'd prefer the airlines to make the call. But the airines have shown they can't be trusted. Remember people being stuck on the plane for 8 hours?

Again, ultimately, this points to a need to overhaul the whole ATC system and at airports like JFK the need to expand the airport. But, as to your suggestion, it is called ground management. You ensure you have your de-icing slot before pushing off.

Dave

DLdweeb

+1. This seem reasonable. I really have no sympathy for DL on this issue.

RobertS975

Although it is much more tolerable to be sitting up front, and you are more likely to be able to receive some beverage service during the delay, the gist of the issue is the same in both cabins... do you want to get to your destination or not?

I had a trip to Rio out of BOS preemptively canceled in February for a snowstorm that ultimately never even hit us. But the sad part was that because of Feb school holidays, DL could not get us out to even ATL for several days. And because it was Carnival time in Rio, those flights were full as well. I would have gladly sat on the tarmac for three hours rather than completely cancel a week long vacation and have to absorb non-refundable hotels etc.

This rule will have people missing their cruises, and other people will miss weddings and funerals.

komalkks

[QUOTE=EZE;13893471]Could it be that the airlines overschedule flights that cause runway and Air Traffic congestion?

All the more so when they use RJs and turbo props and schedule multiple flights at the same gate - e.g. on April 28th, in ATL, 3 RJs were scheduled at the same gate (D36) to depart within 10 minutes of each other!

DL-Don

[QUOTE=komalkks;13895427]+1

The use of multiple RJs instead of one mainline is one of the major causes of the over scheduling. I'll take a mainline and a 2+ hour layover over an RJ anyday!

AndyTLe

Doesn't matter if you're in Y or F/J, I'd prefer getting to my destination late, a bit cranky rather than nowhere.

[QUOTE=komalkks;13895427]
It is much more about the government dragging their feet and NOT investing in the ATC system.

The RJs that are used are necessary for the cities that are served. Just because an RJ is used does not mean DL (or any airline) has overscheduled. Without the smaller aircraft, there are some airports/regions that would not have any service.

A good article about the ATC system and how the next generation GPS-based system could help. http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Busines...ory?id=9131728

3Cforme

This is nonsense. The U.S. carriers have fought for years against rational proposals for ATC (and even runway) expansion. They want the assets but they want somebody else to pay for them. It's as if the trucking industry wanted the nation to build not just roads, but also the terminals at company end and customer end, and paid for dispatchers and dispatch systems. If the Feds add a fee or tax, airlines complain about that.

Nonsense, too, on the rationalized use of RJs. There are RJs scheduled between ATL and ORD - the two busiest (by passenger count) airports in the world. RJs have a place, but it's not between busy airports at times of peak facility demand. Simply put, the airlines are responsible for scheduling capacity as it is, not as they wish it to be. Slot auctions would be a sensible, market-based way to achieve this - but carriers fought that, too.

In the matter of prolonged departure delays, airlines had all the freedom in the world to act responsibly yet repeatedly demonstrated they couldn't be trusted to do so. One can argue if three hours is too long for passengers or insufficiently flexible for carriers, but something needed to be done to change the carriers' behavior.

RobertS975

[QUOTE=DL-Don;13895489]I would have thought that someone who flies as much as you, a DM and on the doorstep of becoming a 4MM, would have valued his time more than that. Especially when more and more RJs are getting FC seating.

But even in a CRJ200, a reliable nonstop is preferred by me over a connection.

StayingHomeIsBetter

LOL...

We have folks here who used to argue that significant delays were so infrequent that there was no problem here that needed to be solved.

Now that the new rule is in place, suddenly their perspective has changed... now significant delays are so frequent that the solution to the problem is going to be a catastrophe.

Granted... the airlines cannot control the weather.

Granted... weather delays cost the airlines.

However, the "do nothing to improve the way the system functions and just hope the problem goes away" attitude that the airlines collectively have applied to the problem must be the one they perceive to be most financially beneficial to them. Otherwise, they would be looking for another solution.

I don't like big government either. But this is one of those situations where the consumer was going to continue taking it on the chin until the government stepped in to stem the abuse.

And, yes, the government... via the obsolete ATC system... has contributed to the problem. Perhaps this new rule will prompt the airlines to start holding the government accountable for its neglect of the ATC system.

And perhaps the government will hold the airlines accountable for their scheduling practices, which push the larger airports to the edge of dysfunction even in good weather.

So to repeat, the airlines cannot control the weather. But weather happens. The airlines and ATC should start planning on weather happening again.

I have never been in a multi-hour delay on the tarmac. But I have been delayed more times than I can count (2, 3, or even 4 hours) trying to get home to the east coast (hyperbole warning!) just because there was a cloud somewhere over New Jersey... and I'm damned tired of it.

There have to be ways that they system could be safely operated more efficiently. But, up till now, neither the airlines nor ATC have been serious about searching them out. And the consumer suffers from their collective inaction.

fti

Obviously you are uninformed about cancellations and delays. They don't all happen due to blizzards. Many other weather factors cause it as well. And there are a host of non-weather-related incidents that affect delays too.