DL Rev Mgmt & Skymiles Surely Can Do Better than 21 of 45 BE seats going non-rev DL17
Apr 27, 2010, 6:36 pm
#61
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: US
Programs: DL GE
Posts: 1,654
However, he stated departing this place is all standby and you could be stuck for days waiting for a seat. So I am not sure where it is...
Apr 27, 2010, 6:45 pm
#62
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,857
All such travel is standby - its not just where he is departing from. It may be that loads may be high on the particular flight which will be likely for international flights. If you think about it could you imagine planning a trip based on whether or not you happen to get on especially LAX-SYD which is a one a day flight.
Apr 27, 2010, 6:54 pm
#63
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Orleans (for now)
Programs: DL PM, WN, SC, various other programs of lowly status
Posts: 1,676
I have 2 very good friends who only fly on buddy passes. We routinely arrange our TATL trips to coincide with theirs. 8 times out of 10, they snag the front cabin, but almost never on the first try. They've been stuck for days trying to get out of CDG, to the point where I've asked them if the hotel bills and extra time away from work don't negate any savings they get from the BPs. They think not.
Hoping that I do not get busted here by them, I really don't agree with the buddy pass holder getting the BE seat over elites. But I do think employee non-revs should have that as as benefit for the hard jobs they have. Not a popular opinion I'll agree, but that's JMHO.
Hoping that I do not get busted here by them, I really don't agree with the buddy pass holder getting the BE seat over elites. But I do think employee non-revs should have that as as benefit for the hard jobs they have. Not a popular opinion I'll agree, but that's JMHO.
Apr 27, 2010, 7:01 pm
#64
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SLC/DCA
Programs: DL DM (and NRSA), UA NA, HH Dia, National Exec Elite
Posts: 1,764
I think that this is what goes to the heart of the matter. Who does Delta feel that it needs to take care of first. Non-rev employees/retirees/etc or high-med status members of their loyalty program. Someone asked if you paid $3-5k or a J ticket if you would like the fact that the person next to you paid $700, well I guess that I would be much more irritated if I knew they didn't pay anything. I travel in J for business when I go across either pond, most of the time I choose AA because when I travel for leisure with my spouse I can use my SWU's on the lowest fare buckets. The reality is that I could travel Emirates, BA, or Singapore, but those Evips for leisure push me to AA.
So there begs a question, is the stinginess with the PMU upgrade fares protecting revenue, or employee perks??
So there begs a question, is the stinginess with the PMU upgrade fares protecting revenue, or employee perks??
And for the millionth time. Delta Revenue Management does not care one iota about employee perks when it comes to the front cabin. If they truly cared about protecting the front cabin for employees there would never be discounted business tickets or low-award tickets available (which there are no matter how many people here want to believe).
Apr 27, 2010, 7:03 pm
#65
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SLC/DCA
Programs: DL DM (and NRSA), UA NA, HH Dia, National Exec Elite
Posts: 1,764
I have 2 very good friends who only fly on buddy passes. We routinely arrange our TATL trips to coincide with theirs. 8 times out of 10, they snag the front cabin, but almost never on the first try. They've been stuck for days trying to get out of CDG, to the point where I've asked them if the hotel bills and extra time away from work don't negate any savings they get from the BPs. They think not.
Hoping that I do not get busted here by them, I really don't agree with the buddy pass holder getting the BE seat over elites. But I do think employee non-revs should have that as as benefit for the hard jobs they have. Not a popular opinion I'll agree, but that's JMHO.
Hoping that I do not get busted here by them, I really don't agree with the buddy pass holder getting the BE seat over elites. But I do think employee non-revs should have that as as benefit for the hard jobs they have. Not a popular opinion I'll agree, but that's JMHO.
Apr 27, 2010, 7:11 pm
#66
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 677
Actually, DL's policy sort of works in my favor, as I am induced to split my flying between 2 airlines, and fortunately fly enough to maintain top status on both...
In a subsequent post, you suggest that perhaps K+ fares should be upgradeable on DL---that would actually make my life more difficult (!), as I would be tempted to fly DL internationally, and would have a hard time maintaining AA EXP! So, the status quo actually works well for me, and DL provides an excellent domestic mainline experience on my routes...
In a subsequent post, you suggest that perhaps K+ fares should be upgradeable on DL---that would actually make my life more difficult (!), as I would be tempted to fly DL internationally, and would have a hard time maintaining AA EXP! So, the status quo actually works well for me, and DL provides an excellent domestic mainline experience on my routes...
Last edited by thezipper; Apr 27, 2010 at 7:35 pm Reason: clean up quote
Apr 27, 2010, 7:11 pm
#67
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Originally Posted by DLATL777
International Business Class (BE) on many routes is more a way to reward DL employees then to ferry Business Travelers.
Actually, the program is designed perfectly to ferry business travelers willing to pay the fare rather THAN people that want freebie upgrades off of low fares.
International Business Class (BE) on many routes is more a way to reward DL employees then to ferry Business Travelers.
Actually, the program is designed perfectly to ferry business travelers willing to pay the fare rather THAN people that want freebie upgrades off of low fares.
Apr 27, 2010, 7:12 pm
#68
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SLC
Programs: Delta Skymiles DM, Priority Club Platinum Elite
Posts: 394
Apr 27, 2010, 7:20 pm
#69
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I have good friends who had to buy last minute Y TATL tickets because of an issue like this. These are people making $10-15 per hour but were so afraid of losing their job that they felt it was better to spend the serious money to get them home than to lose their job. Thats the dark side of being an NRSA that everyone conveniently overlooks.
The hell you say?! People overlooking the obvious on FT? "HV" Customers making assumptions?
Employees deserve to ride BE...most don't make a ton of money...it is a perk for the job, and it is a payment for every pompous, entitled Elite that slides up to the check in desk with a half-smile asking what their upgrade chances are when there is clearly a GIDS system.
Let's all start upgrading T fares.....then we can start a thread about how BE service levels have slipped and Krug wasn't available in front....then all threaten to go to UA. People just don't get it. Me, me, me, me...I am special...I deserve it.
Apr 27, 2010, 7:24 pm
#70
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SLC/DCA
Programs: DL DM (and NRSA), UA NA, HH Dia, National Exec Elite
Posts: 1,764
Because employees riding in J/F are the reason this company lost money ...
Apr 27, 2010, 7:31 pm
#71
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Careful, Major....don't hit 'em with facts. It is much-more productive to have an argument based on wild speculation, conspiracy, and theories. I am sure that is makes a particularly valid argument as to the value of the customer to DL who says "I want it, but don't want to pay for it". Clearly, many still are willing to pay....just makes y'all look cheap.
Last edited by bubbashow; Apr 27, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Apr 27, 2010, 8:08 pm
#72
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
Not.
Going.
To.
Happen.
It's worthless rants like this which lower the credibility of FlyerTalker's, as a group. Delta has made it clear that "cheap" international upgrades is not something that they believe in.
As for the idea sending out targeted promos like that, I am sure that you don't work in marketing or with databases....
Going.
To.
Happen.
It's worthless rants like this which lower the credibility of FlyerTalker's, as a group. Delta has made it clear that "cheap" international upgrades is not something that they believe in.
As for the idea sending out targeted promos like that, I am sure that you don't work in marketing or with databases....
I am sure DL folks who read FT are smart enough to block "worthless rants" and instead focus on those 
FTers who can provide them sage counsel.
Apr 27, 2010, 8:15 pm
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
The idea of lowering the threshold (not to T as some keep quoting) one or two notches would result in more people paying a premium for Y which translates to higher PP yields. Certainly higher than the $0 DL makes for giving its employee perks (which, again, I agree with).
Apr 27, 2010, 8:34 pm
#74
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: NWA Tears
Posts: 979
Once upon a time, BE/WBC had a lot of fare paying pax flying over ponds. In those days this probably wasn't as big of an issue because many flyers had their companies buying J for them and others knew that BE/WBC was full of fare paying pax and thus no room for upgrades. About 3 years ago this started to change (except perhaps out of JFK and IAD) as companies began cutting back as the economy started to equalize. Today there are far fewer fare paying pax up front, more flyers who used to fly up front on paid fares who are now in Y, and more J seats up for grabs (by NRSA, DM's, PM's, GM's, FO's, and even granny). Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new model.
Will numbers of fare paying J pax return to the levels they were?
Will numbers of fare paying J pax return to the levels they were?
Apr 27, 2010, 8:48 pm
#75
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SLC/DCA
Programs: DL DM (and NRSA), UA NA, HH Dia, National Exec Elite
Posts: 1,764
Really? I am not a conspiracy theorist at all and I think non-revs in BE as a perk is a good idea...but you can;t believe this...right? The fact that non-revs get up front is proof they CANT SELL BIZ. If any given cabin is more than half full of paid business it is a miracle and you guys, if anybody, know this.
The idea of lowering the threshold (not to T as some keep quoting) one or two notches would result in more people paying a premium for Y which translates to higher PP yields. Certainly higher than the $0 DL makes for giving its employee perks (which, again, I agree with).
The idea of lowering the threshold (not to T as some keep quoting) one or two notches would result in more people paying a premium for Y which translates to higher PP yields. Certainly higher than the $0 DL makes for giving its employee perks (which, again, I agree with).
I have no doubts that DL could do a better job allocating seats for sale and redemption in J but to claim that employees riding up front is the reason DL is losing money is nothing short of fallacy.