Lots of whining, including from yours truly, about not getting upgraded as much with DL as with NW. Does anyone know what the cause of this (the lack of upgrades, not the whining) is? Theoretically anyway, both are large enough that their flyer populations s/b about the same. Both should have about the same percentages of business travelers vs leisure, same percentage who purchase full Y fares vs LUT, same percentage who fly 25k, 50k, 75k, etc.

DL doesn't seem to have fewer FC seats / capita than NW. True? Does DL do more upgrading of non-elites in some way? Does DL fill up more FC/BE seats with NRSA's than NW?

When I comped over to NW from DL during the Rob Borden fiasco, one of the first things I noticed at NW was a lot more upgrades than at DL, which is one of the reasons I never went back to DL after they fired Borden and pulled the plug on his changes. I am not surprised at all for someone coming from NW t notice fewer upgrades at DL. As for myself, I had seen all I wanted of DL, and moved to CO. In spite of an expectation of fewer upgrades, I have been pleasantly surprised so far with CO. CO is not NW, but it beats the heck out of DL.

Actually DL does have fewer FC seats....NWA's fleet had the largest % of F inventory as compared to Y on aircraft offering F

My impression is that DL is holding back seats from the Medallion upgrade bucket so the inventory slides down to the GAs. At that point it enters the whole realm of GA issues that keep coming up (GAs that seem to be too harried to fully and accurately process gate upgrades and/or the various 'shenanigan' complaints).

Socrates - you may be right that DLs inventory of FC coming into the merger was lower than NW but I don't think there has been any major reduction in FC from the former NW fleet yet so the inventory to use should be relatively close to pre-merger. The one thing that has changed in a major way in the last few months was the shutdown of NWs primary IT and whatever was left of NW's rev mgmt running it. Its all DL rules now hence my thought its inventory management related.

Assuming I'm right its really too bad DL isn't thinking this through. It would indicate that they are chasing the 'high paying customer rainbow' too much and just creating ill-will and mistakes in the process.

Of course the surly side of me is rather pleased with the idea of DL having its own 'rainbow' chase. I rather suspect that the 'high paying customer' is probably about as rare as an easily found low redemption level award these days. Nevertheless when the result is a lowered customer experience its just not right.

Read this http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle...DiaMDCinchO7DU

I've been wondering why I seem to score remarkably less UG on DL with PM vs FO with NW - I believe the observations of this road warrior to be accurate.

There remains a lot of confusion in the upgrade priority based on Medallion level, fare class etc.

In both the DL and NW schemes, full fare pax were upgraded immediately upon booking, based on availability. There was a difference in the NW system in that an agent-based booking was immediately placed in available upgraded inventory at the time of booking. On-line and outside booking went through the upgrade sweep process, usually overnite, but sometimes within hours.

In the DL system, it appears that the automated system is the only method to get available space -- even on a full fare ticket. If the system is working right and you are within the 5-6 day window of EUA, it is likely there will be no availability until more inventory is released -- even up to a battle field upgrade at the gate.

In the case of upgrades on discount fare classes, I think there is a major difference between current DL rules and the old NW system. My understanding of the NW system was for only two classes -- full fare or 'other' (meaning discounted fares). All discounted fares were treated equally for upgrade purposes, so elite status had a lot of pull! Time of check-in for BF upgrades was the tie-breaker.

If you look at the DL upgrade process, they are methodically working the way down from the highest fare classes to the lowest fare classes, then by elite status. So, a DM with an 'L' fare is way behind a FO with a 'B' fare!

This gets further complicated with feeds into hubs versus origination in the hubs -- the hub captives may get effectively locked out when the connecting flight into the hub clears first and takes the second leg prior to EUA running for the hub-based leg. From observation, there is a conflicting rule on connecting flights where the upgrade must clear all the way through and can effectively 'break' the normal process.

Further, the connecting feeder flights frequently price out lower than a hub-based origination to the same destination -- does that mean they are at a lower fare class putting them further down the list? And, how does this play out in the upgrade process -- good or bad?

There are conflicts and confusion out there -- DL needs to simplify and clarify these problems.

Apart from this, Delta gave away large numbers of MQM's last year in various promotions. There must be many more elites of each level now, and the inevitable and expected consequence was fewer upgrades per elite.

There we go again. Is that not incorrect? Again I could be wrong but I was 99% certain that a DM on an L fare beats an FO on a B Fare!

Now this makes sense. I know as someone who does not use and Amex card, it's annoying to see someone who flys 50 segments make Diamond while I fly 100 segments and make Plat. Then again, it's my choice I COULD have an Amex Reserve card, I just choose not to.

One idea... NW's old F was for Elite upgrades. While DL has superior F product to NW's F product (come on you have to agree) and that some are willing to PAY for the F seat or use PMU/miles to upgrade. Who would pay for F on any of NW's Domestic planes?

You don't say what level of status you have, but if you're Platinum - like many of us - we were told that we weren't going to lose anything in the new program. Well - example:

Last year - 2 Plats - You on a "U" class ticket - the other one on a "T" class You would have gotten the last upgrade seat between the 2 of you

This year - Same 2 fliers - but he is Diamond now. Diamond on a "T" will get upgraded before Platinum on ALMOST ANYTHING!!

Well obviously upgrade %ages are going to drop if there is a significant number of DMs. There's no way around that. But the original question is in regards to NW vs DL upgrade success.

• Less F Seats
• More Elites/Medallions
• Tighter Loads

Just curious, "superior F product" how? International, sure, but domestic, the only things I see up front are 4" of width, no middle seat, better beverage service.....pretty much the same on both fleets.

I'm not looking to play either side of this silly debate, I held status with both at one time, and like each for different reasons. NW is GONE, it AIN'T coming back. I watch these threads a lot more than I write, but this constant sniping is getting old (ok, it got old early last year). Even the USeless vs AWful nitpicking didn't last this long.....

In the few years leading up to the merger, DL invested in the F product while NW focused more on the Int'l side. Improved meals and beverage service, leather seat covers (personal preference) and AVOD. While this may not seem like much, it is/was better than the F product that NW had.