Let’s talk about ‘fake cheese’ and stuff…
Feb 26, 2010, 3:29 pm
#47
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE US
Programs: Duke of Bombay, Delta Ham Sandwich tm, Delta's Glitch
Posts: 4,201
Feb 26, 2010, 3:31 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: MSP
Programs: DL DM MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, National Exec
Posts: 473
SMI... I think you guys are legitimately working very hard to improve the customer experience, in the face of a complicated merger. You also are clearly under fire from a small but dedicated group of core NW passengers who are dissatisfied (in some cases rightly so, based on their expectations) with how things currently stand.
But I feel the need to, well, call "shenanigans" on this:
From what I can see, there is nothing REMOTELY impartial about Business Traveler Magazine. DL (and Amex, I think) has been a major advertiser for a long time, and even stocks the magazine (I assume that means DL buys a huge subscription) in the SkyClubs. The same, I think, can be said about Global Traveler, which also appears in the SC.
Please, in the name of journalism, do NOT call their surveys "independent." When you get a top ranking from Conde Nast Traveler or Travel and Leisure, then you can feel free to use it as a "data point." But it's fairly clear that the the endorsements you list have been bought and paid for. It severely undermines your argument when you call them "independent."
But I feel the need to, well, call "shenanigans" on this:
From what I can see, there is nothing REMOTELY impartial about Business Traveler Magazine. DL (and Amex, I think) has been a major advertiser for a long time, and even stocks the magazine (I assume that means DL buys a huge subscription) in the SkyClubs. The same, I think, can be said about Global Traveler, which also appears in the SC.
Please, in the name of journalism, do NOT call their surveys "independent." When you get a top ranking from Conde Nast Traveler or Travel and Leisure, then you can feel free to use it as a "data point." But it's fairly clear that the the endorsements you list have been bought and paid for. It severely undermines your argument when you call them "independent."
Just like Pizza Hut vs Papa John's -- PUFFERY!!
Feb 26, 2010, 3:37 pm
#49
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in your villages
Programs: legions, foreign and domestic
Posts: 1,472
Chooses not to participate in FlyerTalk any longer because of objection to homophobic comments and lack of concern by staff.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/only-...policy-ft.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/only-...policy-ft.html
Last edited by inyourvillages; May 3, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Feb 26, 2010, 4:15 pm
#51
Company Representative - Delta Air Lines
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: SkyMiles
Posts: 351
There is also an issue of the style of refrigerator - as you go to many clubs, you will see that some are equipped with small, customer-facing units. That is only part of the equation. There is also an issue of longer term, bulk storage in the back kitchen areas that must be considered in each location. We need to consider both customer-facing and back of club refrigeration.
As I have learned over and over and over again ... nothing is simple at an airline, but if the goal is important to our customers, our job is to find a solution ... and we are working on one.
SkyMilesInsider
ps - little factoid that you didn't know, SMI used hold a state license as a certified food manager at one point.
Feb 26, 2010, 4:20 pm
#52
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: OKC
Programs: DL DM/2.768MM, Global Entry, Titanium_Marriott, GHertz
Posts: 6,752
Feb 26, 2010, 5:06 pm
#53
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KATL
Programs: DL DM/2MM
Posts: 2,036
Feb 26, 2010, 5:56 pm
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,409
Clubs get upgraded, what, once every 10 years?
What you're really saying there is you're taking it so seriously that you're not ACTUALLY going to do anything about it.
Here's the "honest communication" translation for you:
"We don't have enough refrigerated storage in many of our lounges to keep cheese. We do not anticipate adding any storage to our lounges until their normal upgrade cycle, so we expect the fake cheese situation to remain unchanged for a few to several years."
What you're really saying there is you're taking it so seriously that you're not ACTUALLY going to do anything about it.
Here's the "honest communication" translation for you:
"We don't have enough refrigerated storage in many of our lounges to keep cheese. We do not anticipate adding any storage to our lounges until their normal upgrade cycle, so we expect the fake cheese situation to remain unchanged for a few to several years."
Feb 26, 2010, 6:24 pm
#56
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY by birth, BNA by choice - soon YXE, the SKY by virtue.
Posts: 2,420
First, let me say that I DO appreciate a more honest communication from SMI & Delta. At the same time, I still see "corporate speak" in many ways...
Well, seeing as how you were already operating the E former BE lounge in ATL and the former BE lounge in JFK prior to the merger, at their respective costs...then absorbed the Northwest WorldClubs, which offered snacks all day...how is it NOT a "cost-cutting" measure when the snack offerings in those WCs were "harmonized" to the Delta level of only 4-7?
To bring back the "Northwest" standard of snacks all day over all clubs (albeit with "fake" cheese) is only returning half of your clubs to their service (and expenditure) standards prior to the acquisition. While it is increasing the amenities at former SkyClubs, it is yet another "take-away" and then half-done "give-back" to make it seem like you are now offering more.
That's funny. I've never seen "cheddar" in a SkyClub so far. Perhaps you mean the "Swiss-flavor" and "Asiago-flavor" cheese product that I've seen manufactured with a cheddar cheese base? Also, I have to say I don't like the crackers in the SkyClubs. I prefer something more similar to a Club, Ritz, or Town House cracker - individually packaged, which is actually the most important part.
I did a little Googling to examine your argument about refrigeration "space". The lowest cost I found of an Avanti BCA193G 1.7 cubic ft. Beverage Cooler was $108. As best as I can estimate, 28 clubs were pre-merger. That's less than $3,000 to outfit all of those clubs with a small glass-door refrigerator capable of holding "real" cheese. I don't recall being in a club thus far that didn't have space for a 1.7 cu ft refrigerator in the snack area. As far as storage in the back, even in clubs that had no refrigeration, a $125 4.6 refrigerator would fix the storage issue for that "real" cheese. That's less than $10,000 TOTAL to outfit all clubs with display (and storage) refrigerators so that "real" cheese could have stayed.
I know these calculations are rudimentary and there are a lot more things to consider...but I just have a hard time justifying SOME of the cost cuts and then how they were spun. Look, I'd love more extensive food offerings. I understand why that's not possible. The debate between the Northwest model and the Delta model, however, doesn't seem like so much of a cost difference that it is unworkable.
Just my humble opinions.
As we have posted previously our changes were not cost cutting measures, rather a cost reallocation across the club network.
To bring back the "Northwest" standard of snacks all day over all clubs (albeit with "fake" cheese) is only returning half of your clubs to their service (and expenditure) standards prior to the acquisition. While it is increasing the amenities at former SkyClubs, it is yet another "take-away" and then half-done "give-back" to make it seem like you are now offering more.
Why ‘fake’ cheese and when can we expect ‘real’ cheese back?
This is the real story: many pre-merger Delta Club locations have a shortage of refrigeration space. This creates a number of logistical issues including food safety, which we must consider in our snack offerings. As a result, the majority of the items we offer across the Club network must be shelf-stable. Cost is not a factor in this decision – in fact, it may interest all of you to know, it is easier for Delta to purchase real cheese and with a very comparable per unit cost to the fake cheese product.
SkyMilesInsider
This is the real story: many pre-merger Delta Club locations have a shortage of refrigeration space. This creates a number of logistical issues including food safety, which we must consider in our snack offerings. As a result, the majority of the items we offer across the Club network must be shelf-stable. Cost is not a factor in this decision – in fact, it may interest all of you to know, it is easier for Delta to purchase real cheese and with a very comparable per unit cost to the fake cheese product.
SkyMilesInsider
I know these calculations are rudimentary and there are a lot more things to consider...but I just have a hard time justifying SOME of the cost cuts and then how they were spun. Look, I'd love more extensive food offerings. I understand why that's not possible. The debate between the Northwest model and the Delta model, however, doesn't seem like so much of a cost difference that it is unworkable.
Just my humble opinions.
Feb 26, 2010, 6:31 pm
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,424
First, SMI thank you very much. As many have stated, this is the type of communication many of us on FT have been waiting for. While we may not be happy about all of the changes, communication goes a long way to pave the way to understanding. Please keep it up. My biggest biggest beef with DL has been the lack of communication when all of the negative changes occur.
Obviously DL is reading and sees, so can we PLEASE get a poll about the award calendar? MODS PLEASE make a poll so we can vote on issues like if it should be the top issue DL needs to fix for the SM program, if award availability is perceived as something to drive FF's elsewhere etc...
The fact that 63% of you have indicated via this poll that food is a concern for you is a strong indication to us that we need to continue our work here. We are committed to doing so.
Feb 26, 2010, 6:32 pm
#58
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 953
I'm in ATL B lounge and the carrots are in one of the little acrylic boxes but sitting on a (melting) bed of ice. So, they're not refrigerated -- I can imagine keeping the ice stocked across EVERY SkyClub is cost or labor prohibitive.
Feb 26, 2010, 6:40 pm
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: DL DM 2MM, Marriott LT Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 15,302
I'd like to thank SMI again here for the post and information he provided.
I didn't realize they needed NSF equipment... it does make a big difference in cost.
I for one am looking forward to getting the "real" cheese back in the clubs.
I didn't realize they needed NSF equipment... it does make a big difference in cost.
I for one am looking forward to getting the "real" cheese back in the clubs.
Feb 26, 2010, 6:55 pm
#60
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
All of the former World Clubs had whatever was needed for storage and presentation of food requiring refrigeration. Wherever that bartender goes in the former CRC clubs whenever you would like a drink, would perhaps be the place where commercial/restaurant grade refrigerators could be kept.
@:-) Get rid of those space hogs --- the bars + bartenders---- and remodel into whatever is needed to get proper space for the refrigerator! Put in a soda machine and self-serve bar, and voila.... plenty of space for everything!