Strategy for KE award flights using DL miles
Feb 20, 2010, 5:04 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: IND
Posts: 2,005
Strategy for KE award flights using DL miles
As of Feb 2010, DL gives no more low tier (i.e. 60k in Y) transpacific award chance to us anymore, now everyone's looking for KE. There are some catches should be known first, and I'd like to share.
US-bound: from ICN to US (and Canada).
ICN-bound: from US/Canada to ICN
Blackout dates: Korean air (and Asiana) has longest blackout dates in the world with different periods for US-bound and ICN-bound. BUT DL somehow blocks KE award whenever the date is in any of KE blackout periods no matter what direction it is. For example, August is not blackout for ICN-bound flights, but DL blocks it anyway because August is blackout for US-bound. That makes in remaining 2010, blackout dates are: 5/22-7/11, 7/16-9/5, 9/17-9/26 (Thanksgiving in Korea), 12/11-1/9/2011, and similar afterwards, for all KE flights. That's already 4.5~5 months out of only 12.
That makes leftovers low season, and should be easy to grab, but still hard. It is good to know which routes are easier than others. Note that I'm interested only on coach class. If you need business class, prepare to spend more time and energy as you may have to call them in a daily basis since you have much lower chance.
KE's own award availability and what DL sees are a lot different, so don't bother trying to search on KE website. You can't search anyway if you don't have enough miles for the trip. And there's no place you can search KE award on-line. We all miss nwa.com therefore.
These are all based on my experience, not a strict one.
1. Awesome availability: mostly over-capacity except LAX. High chance even for the last minute (I mean, 1 month)
- LAX: 3+ daily flights. Amongst 3pm LAX-bound one has the highest chance.
- YYZ: it's been only 1.5 years since KE increased from 2-3 weeklies to daily. KE has trouble filling up the seats, and we get great award chance. Terrible timing for YYZ-bound flight with no DL connection at all as it arrives past 9pm.
- LAS: low load factor, but KE upgrades to 747 from late March anyway. LAS-bound is nonstop but ICN-bound goes via LAX, and the flight becomes full from LAX. Still both ways show generous availability. Not daily, though. We less mind long layover or forced overnight in vegas than elsewhere.
2. Good availability: still higher chance in the last minute
- DFW: watch out that KE still uses old configuration (no personal TV in Y, no flat or lie-flat C) occasionally until early April
3. Medium availability: if book long before, very high chance. Not that much in the last minute
SEA, ORD, YVR, IAD
4. Bad availability: if you book 6 months+ before, still high chance
- SFO: used to good, but currently under-capacity with only 4 weeklies 772. Will be better later this year when upgrades to 5 747 a week.
5. Never-even-dream-about-it availability
ATL and JFK: somehow KE opens a lot for its own award program, but very rare item for DL award. If ATL or JFK is decently opened, we could go with less number of connections, but we're out of luck. From August, ATL increases to 10 weekly from 1 daily, we'll see (I doubt, though).
Intra Asia: much better than US-ICN-US chance. Most routes are over-capacity status due to competition. But the sooner, the better, of course.
Call and ask specifically for Korean air XXX-ICN nonstop flight availability and make route accordingly. Otherwise DL agents will give you something like 135k results. Please share your know-hows and experiences that are worth we all know. I hope delta.com shows KE availability as soon as possible.
Good luck with your reservation. I was fed up yesterday and so did DL agents who helped me.
US-bound: from ICN to US (and Canada).
ICN-bound: from US/Canada to ICN
Blackout dates: Korean air (and Asiana) has longest blackout dates in the world with different periods for US-bound and ICN-bound. BUT DL somehow blocks KE award whenever the date is in any of KE blackout periods no matter what direction it is. For example, August is not blackout for ICN-bound flights, but DL blocks it anyway because August is blackout for US-bound. That makes in remaining 2010, blackout dates are: 5/22-7/11, 7/16-9/5, 9/17-9/26 (Thanksgiving in Korea), 12/11-1/9/2011, and similar afterwards, for all KE flights. That's already 4.5~5 months out of only 12.
That makes leftovers low season, and should be easy to grab, but still hard. It is good to know which routes are easier than others. Note that I'm interested only on coach class. If you need business class, prepare to spend more time and energy as you may have to call them in a daily basis since you have much lower chance.
KE's own award availability and what DL sees are a lot different, so don't bother trying to search on KE website. You can't search anyway if you don't have enough miles for the trip. And there's no place you can search KE award on-line. We all miss nwa.com therefore.
These are all based on my experience, not a strict one.
1. Awesome availability: mostly over-capacity except LAX. High chance even for the last minute (I mean, 1 month)
- LAX: 3+ daily flights. Amongst 3pm LAX-bound one has the highest chance.
- YYZ: it's been only 1.5 years since KE increased from 2-3 weeklies to daily. KE has trouble filling up the seats, and we get great award chance. Terrible timing for YYZ-bound flight with no DL connection at all as it arrives past 9pm.
- LAS: low load factor, but KE upgrades to 747 from late March anyway. LAS-bound is nonstop but ICN-bound goes via LAX, and the flight becomes full from LAX. Still both ways show generous availability. Not daily, though. We less mind long layover or forced overnight in vegas than elsewhere.
2. Good availability: still higher chance in the last minute
- DFW: watch out that KE still uses old configuration (no personal TV in Y, no flat or lie-flat C) occasionally until early April
3. Medium availability: if book long before, very high chance. Not that much in the last minute
SEA, ORD, YVR, IAD
4. Bad availability: if you book 6 months+ before, still high chance
- SFO: used to good, but currently under-capacity with only 4 weeklies 772. Will be better later this year when upgrades to 5 747 a week.
5. Never-even-dream-about-it availability
ATL and JFK: somehow KE opens a lot for its own award program, but very rare item for DL award. If ATL or JFK is decently opened, we could go with less number of connections, but we're out of luck. From August, ATL increases to 10 weekly from 1 daily, we'll see (I doubt, though).
Intra Asia: much better than US-ICN-US chance. Most routes are over-capacity status due to competition. But the sooner, the better, of course.
Call and ask specifically for Korean air XXX-ICN nonstop flight availability and make route accordingly. Otherwise DL agents will give you something like 135k results. Please share your know-hows and experiences that are worth we all know. I hope delta.com shows KE availability as soon as possible.
Good luck with your reservation. I was fed up yesterday and so did DL agents who helped me.
Feb 20, 2010, 5:48 am
#2
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
As of Feb 2010, DL gives no more low tier (i.e. 60k in Y) transpacific award chance to us anymore, now everyone's looking for KE. There are some catches should be known first, and I'd like to share.
US-bound: from ICN to US (and Canada).
ICN-bound: from US/Canada to ICN
Blackout dates: Korean air (and Asiana) has longest blackout dates in the world with different periods for US-bound and ICN-bound. BUT DL somehow blocks KE award whenever the date is in any of KE blackout periods no matter what direction it is. For example, August is not blackout for ICN-bound flights, but DL blocks it anyway because August is blackout for US-bound. That makes in remaining 2010, blackout dates are: 5/22-7/11, 7/16-9/5, 9/17-9/26 (Thanksgiving in Korea), 12/11-1/9/2011, and similar afterwards, for all KE flights. That's already 4.5~5 months out of only 12.
That makes leftovers low season, and should be easy to grab, but still hard. It is good to know which routes are easier than others. Note that I'm interested only on coach class. If you need business class, prepare to spend more time and energy as you may have to call them in a daily basis since you have much lower chance.
KE's own award availability and what DL sees are a lot different, so don't bother trying to search on KE website. You can't search anyway if you don't have enough miles for the trip. And there's no place you can search KE award on-line. We all miss nwa.com therefore.
These are all based on my experience, not a strict one.
1. Awesome availability: mostly over-capacity except LAX. High chance even for the last minute (I mean, 1 month)
- LAX: 3+ daily flights. Amongst 3pm LAX-bound one has the highest chance.
- YYZ: it's been only 1.5 years since KE increased from 2-3 weeklies to daily. KE has trouble filling up the seats, and we get great award chance. Terrible timing for YYZ-bound flight with no DL connection at all as it arrives past 9pm.
- LAS: low load factor, but KE upgrades to 747 from late March anyway. LAS-bound is nonstop but ICN-bound goes via LAX, and the flight becomes full from LAX. Still both ways show generous availability. Not daily, though. We less mind long layover or forced overnight in vegas than elsewhere.
2. Good availability: still higher chance in the last minute
- DFW: watch out that KE still uses old configuration (no personal TV in Y, no flat or lie-flat C) occasionally until early April
3. Medium availability: if book long before, very high chance. Not that much in the last minute
SEA, ORD, YVR, IAD
4. Bad availability: if you book 6 months+ before, still high chance
- SFO: used to good, but currently under-capacity with only 4 weeklies 772. Will be better later this year when upgrades to 5 747 a week.
5. Never-even-dream-about-it availability
ATL and JFK: somehow KE opens a lot for its own award program, but very rare item for DL award. If ATL or JFK is decently opened, we could go with less number of connections, but we're out of luck. From August, ATL increases to 10 weekly from 1 daily, we'll see (I doubt, though).
Intra Asia: much better than US-ICN-US chance. Most routes are over-capacity status due to competition. But the sooner, the better, of course.
Call and ask specifically for Korean air XXX-ICN nonstop flight availability and make route accordingly. Otherwise DL agents will give you something like 135k results. Please share your know-hows and experiences that are worth we all know. I hope delta.com shows KE availability as soon as possible.
Good luck with your reservation. I was fed up yesterday and so did DL agents who helped me.
US-bound: from ICN to US (and Canada).
ICN-bound: from US/Canada to ICN
Blackout dates: Korean air (and Asiana) has longest blackout dates in the world with different periods for US-bound and ICN-bound. BUT DL somehow blocks KE award whenever the date is in any of KE blackout periods no matter what direction it is. For example, August is not blackout for ICN-bound flights, but DL blocks it anyway because August is blackout for US-bound. That makes in remaining 2010, blackout dates are: 5/22-7/11, 7/16-9/5, 9/17-9/26 (Thanksgiving in Korea), 12/11-1/9/2011, and similar afterwards, for all KE flights. That's already 4.5~5 months out of only 12.
That makes leftovers low season, and should be easy to grab, but still hard. It is good to know which routes are easier than others. Note that I'm interested only on coach class. If you need business class, prepare to spend more time and energy as you may have to call them in a daily basis since you have much lower chance.
KE's own award availability and what DL sees are a lot different, so don't bother trying to search on KE website. You can't search anyway if you don't have enough miles for the trip. And there's no place you can search KE award on-line. We all miss nwa.com therefore.
These are all based on my experience, not a strict one.
1. Awesome availability: mostly over-capacity except LAX. High chance even for the last minute (I mean, 1 month)
- LAX: 3+ daily flights. Amongst 3pm LAX-bound one has the highest chance.
- YYZ: it's been only 1.5 years since KE increased from 2-3 weeklies to daily. KE has trouble filling up the seats, and we get great award chance. Terrible timing for YYZ-bound flight with no DL connection at all as it arrives past 9pm.
- LAS: low load factor, but KE upgrades to 747 from late March anyway. LAS-bound is nonstop but ICN-bound goes via LAX, and the flight becomes full from LAX. Still both ways show generous availability. Not daily, though. We less mind long layover or forced overnight in vegas than elsewhere.
2. Good availability: still higher chance in the last minute
- DFW: watch out that KE still uses old configuration (no personal TV in Y, no flat or lie-flat C) occasionally until early April
3. Medium availability: if book long before, very high chance. Not that much in the last minute
SEA, ORD, YVR, IAD
4. Bad availability: if you book 6 months+ before, still high chance
- SFO: used to good, but currently under-capacity with only 4 weeklies 772. Will be better later this year when upgrades to 5 747 a week.
5. Never-even-dream-about-it availability
ATL and JFK: somehow KE opens a lot for its own award program, but very rare item for DL award. If ATL or JFK is decently opened, we could go with less number of connections, but we're out of luck. From August, ATL increases to 10 weekly from 1 daily, we'll see (I doubt, though).
Intra Asia: much better than US-ICN-US chance. Most routes are over-capacity status due to competition. But the sooner, the better, of course.
Call and ask specifically for Korean air XXX-ICN nonstop flight availability and make route accordingly. Otherwise DL agents will give you something like 135k results. Please share your know-hows and experiences that are worth we all know. I hope delta.com shows KE availability as soon as possible.
Good luck with your reservation. I was fed up yesterday and so did DL agents who helped me.
As I have posted in the Korea Air forum, I had a difficult time finding two J award tickets from from ICN-to anywhere in the US....however I quickly found out that YYZ was wide open though like you said so I could easily book ICN-YYZ in J for two people using DL miles at low level. THEN out of nowhere I called SMS and found two J award tickets ICN-JFK!! I was astounded and re-routed immediately. Granted its on the 747 with older Prestige Plus seats. Finding Delta awards on routes with the brand new Prestige Sleeper seats 772 aircraft seems to be impossible...I think they may block them completely from SM redemption.
Feb 20, 2010, 7:08 am
#3
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: KOA
Programs: DL Gold/MM, HH Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 2,280
bobbybrown, what about R/T flights from HNL? Do you have any insight? I am having trouble finding 2 business class tickets for any days, looking for Sept-Nov. There is only one seat available for any day, so I went ahead and booked one and am hoping that another will open up some time.
Feb 20, 2010, 7:31 am
#4
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Programs: DL Diamond Million Miler, AA Ex-Plat, IHG RA, Marriott PLAT, HERTZ Pres Circle
Posts: 1,220
Good information.
Here's a strategy that I was thinking of using but I wondered if it would work.
Let's say that I already (probably in May) have reached the 125K mile threshold on DL (thank you rollover). Should I just start banking my DL miles in a KE account to I can have access to their award inventory directly?
I want to book the ATL-ICN flights, typically once a year or so.
Do you folks think this would work?
Randidliyo
Here's a strategy that I was thinking of using but I wondered if it would work.
Let's say that I already (probably in May) have reached the 125K mile threshold on DL (thank you rollover). Should I just start banking my DL miles in a KE account to I can have access to their award inventory directly?
I want to book the ATL-ICN flights, typically once a year or so.
Do you folks think this would work?
Randidliyo
Feb 20, 2010, 8:50 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: IND
Posts: 2,005
Let's say that I already (probably in May) have reached the 125K mile threshold on DL (thank you rollover). Should I just start banking my DL miles in a KE account to I can have access to their award inventory directly?
I want to book the ATL-ICN flights, typically once a year or so.
I want to book the ATL-ICN flights, typically once a year or so.
Feb 20, 2010, 10:03 am
#6
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,611
Award RT on KE LAX-ICN-AKL in J?
I know this would be a brutal, but it is the only Delta Skymiles option that I'm aware of.
How many Skymiles would a low redemption be? Stopovers allowed in ICN?
How many Skymiles would a low redemption be? Stopovers allowed in ICN?
Feb 20, 2010, 10:22 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
With *A this dogleg routing to NZ/Oz on Asian partners is not allowed; it would count as two separate awards. Not sure what rule DL will impose but given current trends, and with award seats on the LAX-SYD completely unavailable at low-tier rates, I'm sure it wouldn't be simple or remotely generous.
P.S. Many kudos to bobbybrown, BTW, for visiting this forum with excellent intelligence on KE.
Feb 20, 2010, 10:34 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
My mostly KE booking, last week.
I used 120k SkyPiles last week to book PHX-SEA (AS), SEA-ICN (KE), ICN-CGK (KE), CGK-HKG (CI), HKG-ICN (KE), ICN-SEA (KE) and SEA-PHX (AS), all in Biz or FC on domestic segments.
It was one of the hardest routings I've ever had to try and get. The agent originally tried booking it via KL through Europe. No luck. Then using DL flights, but came up with a 320k total.
I had mentioned the KE routing at the beginning of the call, but the agent didn't pursue it, until I wouldn't accept the high mileage itins she came up with.
After a lot of spoon feeding, and being told erroneous info (such as no KE flights on certain dates, no CI flights out of CGK), and 82 minutes later, I had booked the flight. Not perfect, since there is a forced overnight in ICN, but not bad in the overall scheme of things. $40 something in taxes.
It was one of the hardest routings I've ever had to try and get. The agent originally tried booking it via KL through Europe. No luck. Then using DL flights, but came up with a 320k total.
I had mentioned the KE routing at the beginning of the call, but the agent didn't pursue it, until I wouldn't accept the high mileage itins she came up with.
After a lot of spoon feeding, and being told erroneous info (such as no KE flights on certain dates, no CI flights out of CGK), and 82 minutes later, I had booked the flight. Not perfect, since there is a forced overnight in ICN, but not bad in the overall scheme of things. $40 something in taxes.
Feb 20, 2010, 2:12 pm
#9
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 3,359
Of course I'm happy to take DL or AS to another gateway city (SEA, LAS, LAX, etc) and THEN take KE to ICN and on to AKL...
Until Delta and Virgin blue have their agreements worked out... KE is probably our best bet for using SkyPiles to get to NZ...
Feb 20, 2010, 2:20 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
I used KE on my RTW trip in 2006. Flew LAX-ICN-SYD and it was a pretty nice trip. At that time there was a forced overnight in ICN, I'm not sure if your flight would require the same.
Feb 20, 2010, 2:24 pm
#11
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SEA (previous locations: DTW, TLV, EWR, BOS)
Programs: AS: 75K; DL/NW: Plat; DL SC: Lifetime; Hyatt: Diamond; HH: Gold; SPG: Plat;
Posts: 3,383
I used 120k SkyPiles last week to book PHX-SEA (AS), SEA-ICN (KE), ICN-CGK (KE), CGK-HKG (CI), HKG-ICN (KE), ICN-SEA (KE) and SEA-PHX (AS), all in Biz or FC on domestic segments.
Not perfect, since there is a forced overnight in ICN, but not bad in the overall scheme of things. $40 something in taxes.
Not perfect, since there is a forced overnight in ICN, but not bad in the overall scheme of things. $40 something in taxes.
Feb 20, 2010, 10:15 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
Feb 20, 2010, 11:02 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
I guess I agree, at least in reference to the online awards calendar. I find low award days to NRT but get quoted 180,000 miles when I select them. Any possibility that calling would get the 120,000 award, or is that just a fantasy?
Feb 21, 2010, 12:36 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
I'm not sure. Hopefully they're nice seats. I was mostly focused on finding the flights!