eponymous_coward

Well, imagine they've said this. There, don't you feel better now?

DL's gone with having better inflight experience and a crappy loyalty program. In an environment where WN and other LCCs are winning hearts and minds (without ANY way to redeem loyalty rewards for premium international travel, incidentally), it's a way to differentiate themselves. I'm not convinced that it's wrong- if strong benefits for elites and ways to redeem travel overseas in premium classes really DID make a huge difference, you'd think UA and AA would be in better shape.

The corporate spin is annoying, but really, who advertises a loyalty program with "we suck and use our loyalty program as a way to grift from AMEX"?

Thomas Hudson

Stealing??? Hell, you are lucky they honored them. In this economy especially.

Miles are a nice perk, but anyone with business sense knows that people who fly alot like those programs and it is part of the overall draw....but the day to day things are what keep you loyal. Also, as a lot of us people who do business for a living know, there are some folks who will never be satisfied and have an inherent need to complain about even the most insipid of topics...

I hope Delta continues to try to make our flying experience better. I hope they listen to us. I hate to see our words to them cheapened by some of the nonsense I have read on here....

Winkdaddy

Yeah, I think the complaints are quite healthy. Squeaky wheel gets the grease right? FT is always evolving and new people are finding out about FT all the time. So new complaints help to keep it "fresh" and remind everyone of the ongoing issues...especially the new folks.

As of now I tell all my friends and colleagues in NYC to stay away from Delta if they are looking for a decent FF program because they will not be able to redeem their miles for an award ticket at a reasonable level (not to mention other negatives like JFK terminals, etc).

Aloha1

Excuse me, but this forum exists to discuss airline travel and FF programs. Both the good AND the bad and to hopefully have some positive impact for change. Any other position is unrealistic and not valid.

redtailshark

We'd certainly have more respect for Jeff and the management if they did this...and their actions mapped to their claims.

Take Mike OL for example. His known positions are iconoclastic and outrageous...when assessed from the received wisdom positions. But as he says... http://www.allgreatquotes.com/michae...y_quotes.shtml

"The European consumer would crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares."

"I don't give a shite if nobody likes me. I am not a cloud bunny, I am not an
aerosexual. I don't like aeroplanes. I never wanted to be a pilot like those other platoons of goons who populate the air industry."

"We bow down to nobody. We'll stuff every one of them in Europe, we won't be second or third and saying: "didn't we do well?"

"Screw the share price, this is a fare war."

Etc. All factually correct. The rapid growth of FR supports his position much more strongly than his competitors' data supports their hollow denunciations of all MOL stands for. Stelios and MOL are largely responsible for the self-imposed dismemberment of all BA internal service in the UK, and reductions in EU service, for example. Other locos similarly impact legacies all over the EU. I don't want to fly FR or its ilk, but ultimately we're all going to have to.

Similarly to MOL, if DL simply said this, SM is worst in class, we don't believe in using it to incentivize revenue itins, we will make it very difficult for you to redeem, do battle with mutliple lines of defense that include DL.COM and disempowered agents, then.... well, we could say, yes, you're right, it's hideous, but you called it the way you see it.

We couldn't charge hypocrisy. :-: Best in class :-: is complete hypocrisy.

That's one view. But, what if people simply use WN for domestic, and buy discount Z on CO or UA or US for their int'l? It destroys all their DL usage, and in no way can this possibly be argued to benefit DL, and SM is shown to be useless as an incentivization scheme. DL might "fire" almost all of its customers this way...the managers ultimately fire themselves, of course.

It would be amusing and correct if they did. Imagine DL.COM saying "SM sucks, we dare you to find a low-level redemption systemwide!!" They'd have real chutzpah then.

That would be better by far than this eternal and absolutely disconnected from reality trumpeting of :-: best in class :-:

Carolinian

But the flying experience is NOT being made better. On domestic legs there are too many Barbie jets instead of mainline. On TATL, I flew a couple of NW flights after they shifted to DL standards, and it was a definite downgrade from what NW standards had been.

Carolinian

I think the word of mouth bad publicity DL is getting from screwing its customers out of the value of their already earned miles is far more than the bad publicity they got out of the Rob Borden fiasco, and I think it will just get worse. They will end up competing with US to fly Ma and Pa Kettle.

kb1992

Maybe Jeff's admirers should appreciate those glorious 350,000-mile international awards. Once when I tried to price out a US-Asia J award, DL wanted a whopping 550,000 mile.

I got many 120,000 mile J award to Asia on NW, and UA, as comparison.

This has to be the world record. No other airlines asks for that many miles. DL is truly :-:Best in Class:-:

eponymous_coward

So they should have kept some Johnson Administration-era DC9s?

I'm not sure I agree- NW had some pretty ratty planes. I haven't found DL to be much different than AA in terms of service (I fly them a decent chunk).

This does happen, no doubt, but it's a small slice. Most people aren't buying Z going intl. I kind of look at it this way: my ancestors came over in steerage from Europe: I can survive Y going back. (Truth be told, the ex-NW A330s are some of the nicest things going to Europe in Y.)

The question becomes is DL selling enough at the front of the plane and are they competitive on INTL- and can they make their domestic network work for them in a market where it's WN setting the prices the market will bear. Only time will tell, I think, but I tend to think mileage plan junkies are a SMALL slice of the market. We just think they're a huge slice because we post on FT.

KLC

I understand the comment may not have been made with the intent to offend, but it seemed to be an unnecessary dig, which is why my reply was a question.

from dictionary.reference.com:

"Provincial ... having or showing the manners, viewpoints, etc., considered characteristic of unsophisticated inhabitants of a province; rustic; narrow or illiberal; parochial: a provincial point of view."

PVGMSP

I am proposing to DL changing the name of SM to Sky High Miles. So people would have realistic expectations when they redeem - They need Sky High quantity of miles in order to get an award ticket. Then all these "whiners" (myself included ) on FT would disappear....

motytrah

Most people aren't FTers. I haven't set foot in INTL Y since the late 90's. I fly a mix of paid Z/A and upgraded Y/B/M. And it was all bookable online. I like to travel, and like to be upfront.

jaimemayo

That's a good suggestion; I could take an airport bus down there. I would prefer not to fly into ORD but there may not be another choice.

GUWonder

.... since DL management has yet to make me an offer I cannot refuse, I cannot answer that question in the affirmative

I'm not looking to have my palms greased by DL management, but I sure am looking for DL to be a better company for its customers than it is and doing so by reinstalling a much greater degree of value in the miles accumulated by customers from flight activity for award flight activity.

pbarnette

I would post more, but why?