Royal Caribbean IRROPS Compared to Airlines
Apr 28, 2024 | 2:49 pm
#1
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Royal Caribbean IRROPS Compared to Airlines
Here is my attempt at taking the current mess with a cruise line and making sense from a flyertalk viewpoint. Been on several cruises over the years, but this is a first time having to deal with IRROPS on an upcoming cruise; something I'm all too familiar with and somewhat experienced with when it comes to airlines. So in the interests of sharing information with fellow Flyertalkers...here we go!
Let us start with something that at least one of my fellow Flyertalkers would understand: Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF).
BLUF: Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines (RCCL) when experiencing a technical problem during a cruise provides less information that what we have come to expect when encountering similar problems with air transportation.
RCCL had a technical problem with propulsion on a 4 day cruise from Los Angeles to Vancouver resulting in a decision to drop 2 ports from the cruise and head directly to Vancouver to perform repairs prior to the 7 day R/T Alaska sailing a day after arrival in Vancouver. The ship here is the Radiance of the Seas (ROTS) which experienced a similar propulsion failure last year resulting in cancellation of a couple of Alaska cruises.
RCCL has been less informative and transparant than what we have come to expect from airlines when problems arise while we are either already at the airport or enroute. At first they gave the impression that the problem would be fixed at the Vancouver port on the arrival day sucvh that the next cruise would take place. They were notices on their website that explained there would be an update the morning of the net cruise on 26 April. Well, they didn't post anything until they instructed those passengers to board as planned only to advise them once on board that they would be staying in port for 2 days and dropping a couple of ports from itinerary. They also told the passengers once on board that they were not allowed to leave the cruise ship due to ... (US Customs, Canadian Customs, Post Closure, whatever). They then moved the ship across the harbor to a commercial pier (kinda like the penalty box many of us have experienced over the years on the tarmac). The following morning they came up with another update and this was the kicker: Everyone has to disembark the next morning as they could not repair the ship in time for the sail.
Compensation was provided in the form of refunds, future credits and a limited reimbursement for onward travel fees incurred. For some it was not really satisfying when you consider all the parameters with planning a cruise, taking time off work, making travel arrangements and excursions, etc.
Now the part that gets me worked up is my cruise on this ship is scheduled to depart in 5 days. I cannot get any information about the situation and in fact RCCL has removed the only travel update related to the ROTS as of this morning. I have been in communication with someone on the ship who has no information and based on last years situation I suspect my cruise will be canceled as well.
My worst case scenario is losing the $350 for one hotel night (3 night prior cancel requirement) and $400 for train and whale watch excursion in Seward at the end of the cruise (non refundable). I looked at travel insurance and it would be stupid to cover an expensive cruise for those two expenses knowing the cruise line will refund their piece and the cost of insurance would be almost as much as those other expenses. Trying to insure just $1000 of expenses related to the cruise is not covered unless I get sick or there is extreme weather (I checked 3 providers).
Now, let us get back to comparing RCCL with an airline I'm familiar with, say UA, AS, AA, BA, JL, ANA, TG, or DL. I can get decent information from a number of websites to determine if the inbound is arriving on time. If there are delays (even rolliing ones) I can inquire at the gate or lounge to assess and make changes if needed. In addition we have recent protections for things like tarmac delays that can result in getting back to the gate and disembarking within a couple of hours.
This cruise situation is like a black box, opaque as can be. What is worse is that most passengers have to travel to the port of embarkation ahead of the sail and most of the savvy ones book hotel for at least a night before (kinda like my positioning flights for aspirational F awards).
This, in my opinion places cruises in the stone age of customer information in the travel industry and highly suspect in terms of their focus; anyone notice the recent RCCL earnings PR and stock price?
I don't think this is something that can be fixed with regulation like we tried with airlines due to the laws concerning international waters and ships per se. However, It does fall into the catagory of buyer beware!
As for me? I'm still planning on taking the Alaska cruise on 3 May, flying to YVR on the 2nd and staying overnight in town before boarding the cruise. If this trip goes sideways I'll just deal with it, but there are some folks I've been reading about online who really got screwed based on cost and logistics.
On another almost comical note, the propulsion system used on ROTS is a novel one based on gas turbine engines; someone online claims it was the MD80 engine. I was the guy who McD dropped off on the runway in Long Beach to video the maiden voyage of that aircraft. I also get the irony that another online poster made in jest about ROTS being the "Max" of the seas...Boeing did acquire McD and seems that was part of the legacy related to recent QC problems.
Cheers,
-Cyborg
Let us start with something that at least one of my fellow Flyertalkers would understand: Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF).
BLUF: Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines (RCCL) when experiencing a technical problem during a cruise provides less information that what we have come to expect when encountering similar problems with air transportation.
RCCL had a technical problem with propulsion on a 4 day cruise from Los Angeles to Vancouver resulting in a decision to drop 2 ports from the cruise and head directly to Vancouver to perform repairs prior to the 7 day R/T Alaska sailing a day after arrival in Vancouver. The ship here is the Radiance of the Seas (ROTS) which experienced a similar propulsion failure last year resulting in cancellation of a couple of Alaska cruises.
RCCL has been less informative and transparant than what we have come to expect from airlines when problems arise while we are either already at the airport or enroute. At first they gave the impression that the problem would be fixed at the Vancouver port on the arrival day sucvh that the next cruise would take place. They were notices on their website that explained there would be an update the morning of the net cruise on 26 April. Well, they didn't post anything until they instructed those passengers to board as planned only to advise them once on board that they would be staying in port for 2 days and dropping a couple of ports from itinerary. They also told the passengers once on board that they were not allowed to leave the cruise ship due to ... (US Customs, Canadian Customs, Post Closure, whatever). They then moved the ship across the harbor to a commercial pier (kinda like the penalty box many of us have experienced over the years on the tarmac). The following morning they came up with another update and this was the kicker: Everyone has to disembark the next morning as they could not repair the ship in time for the sail.
Compensation was provided in the form of refunds, future credits and a limited reimbursement for onward travel fees incurred. For some it was not really satisfying when you consider all the parameters with planning a cruise, taking time off work, making travel arrangements and excursions, etc.
Now the part that gets me worked up is my cruise on this ship is scheduled to depart in 5 days. I cannot get any information about the situation and in fact RCCL has removed the only travel update related to the ROTS as of this morning. I have been in communication with someone on the ship who has no information and based on last years situation I suspect my cruise will be canceled as well.
My worst case scenario is losing the $350 for one hotel night (3 night prior cancel requirement) and $400 for train and whale watch excursion in Seward at the end of the cruise (non refundable). I looked at travel insurance and it would be stupid to cover an expensive cruise for those two expenses knowing the cruise line will refund their piece and the cost of insurance would be almost as much as those other expenses. Trying to insure just $1000 of expenses related to the cruise is not covered unless I get sick or there is extreme weather (I checked 3 providers).
Now, let us get back to comparing RCCL with an airline I'm familiar with, say UA, AS, AA, BA, JL, ANA, TG, or DL. I can get decent information from a number of websites to determine if the inbound is arriving on time. If there are delays (even rolliing ones) I can inquire at the gate or lounge to assess and make changes if needed. In addition we have recent protections for things like tarmac delays that can result in getting back to the gate and disembarking within a couple of hours.
This cruise situation is like a black box, opaque as can be. What is worse is that most passengers have to travel to the port of embarkation ahead of the sail and most of the savvy ones book hotel for at least a night before (kinda like my positioning flights for aspirational F awards).
This, in my opinion places cruises in the stone age of customer information in the travel industry and highly suspect in terms of their focus; anyone notice the recent RCCL earnings PR and stock price?
I don't think this is something that can be fixed with regulation like we tried with airlines due to the laws concerning international waters and ships per se. However, It does fall into the catagory of buyer beware!
As for me? I'm still planning on taking the Alaska cruise on 3 May, flying to YVR on the 2nd and staying overnight in town before boarding the cruise. If this trip goes sideways I'll just deal with it, but there are some folks I've been reading about online who really got screwed based on cost and logistics.
On another almost comical note, the propulsion system used on ROTS is a novel one based on gas turbine engines; someone online claims it was the MD80 engine. I was the guy who McD dropped off on the runway in Long Beach to video the maiden voyage of that aircraft. I also get the irony that another online poster made in jest about ROTS being the "Max" of the seas...Boeing did acquire McD and seems that was part of the legacy related to recent QC problems.
Cheers,
-Cyborg
Last edited by cyborg; Apr 28, 2024 at 2:56 pm
Apr 28, 2024 | 6:31 pm
#2
Join Date: Jan 2013
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OP: Love your post!
You are correct about the dearth of information cruise lines share whenever there is some (from the passenger's perspective) unforeseen change. It is shameful to treat customers like they are just revenue sources. They seem to feel that their customers do not factor in these experiences when making future purchase decisions. Not! (Hope you are voting with your future dollars).
You are correct about the dearth of information cruise lines share whenever there is some (from the passenger's perspective) unforeseen change. It is shameful to treat customers like they are just revenue sources. They seem to feel that their customers do not factor in these experiences when making future purchase decisions. Not! (Hope you are voting with your future dollars).
Apr 28, 2024 | 7:07 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 1999
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FWIW, Regent Seven Seas has a ship with issues (in the Barcelona vicinity) and their protocol for IRROPS reportedly isn't the best.
As for me? I'm still planning on taking the Alaska cruise on 3 May, flying to YVR on the 2nd and staying overnight in town before boarding the cruise. If this trip goes sideways I'll just deal with it, but there are some folks I've been reading about online who really got screwed based on cost and logistics.
On another almost comical note, the propulsion system used on ROTS is a novel one based on gas turbine engines;
Apr 29, 2024 | 11:16 am
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Programs: Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
Posts: 1,609
Update on IRROPS with Radiance of the Seas
Thanks to both of you for the kind responses and suggestions. Just so you know I'm not in Vancouver yet and therefore no need to take any other cruise under the circumstaces (thanks YVR CR for the suggestion).
I'm more focused at this point in ensuring minimal loss or stress associated with lack of update/status and last minute changes as were experienced by the last 2 cruise passengers (LA-VAN coastal repositioning and VAN R/T Alaska). My cruise starts Friday 3 May and so far there has been no information provided as to the status of that cruise (go figure).
Now for the extra fun part and education for those who think travel insurance is the answer...
...only concern for loss of $ is the Marriott hotel booking using a Chase Bonvoy card for the night before the cruise; standard repositioning protocol. These Vancouver hotels have a 3 day cancelation cutoff after which you get the charge. So, I looked up the benefits associated with the Chase Marriott/Bonvoy card and it seemed to exclude this situation; only supports weather, illness or financial problems with cruise line. So, today I spend 45 minutes of phone hell with three different Chase/Marriott desks confirming that fact; they don't make it easy you know.
With zero information regarding the current status of the Cruise ship Radiance of the Seas and that 3 May cruise coming in hot, I decided to look for a more generous cancelation rate and found one at a different hotel chain; Radisson at the YVR airport. So, I will likely cancel the Marriott booking at the Westin Bayshore (giving them a couple of hours in hope of some kind of update) and plan on using the Radisson at YVR for a lower rate and the ability to cancel the day before I fly; better option under the circumstances.
To sum it up: Don't count on travel insurance with complex bookings and multiple servicer providers/carriers. Dump loyalty booking and go with the best available, lowest cost, flexible provider you can find. As for Air travel; what me worry? DL and AS both have cancel to flight credit/wallet options, so no need to insure ;-)
Cheers,
-Cyborg
Update: Tapped out of the Westin with the 3 day cancel requirement at T-11 hours. Next decision point is 1 May at Noon for the Radisson based on their policy. Have not thrown in the towel for the cruise on 3 May; for that call I have until 11am MDT on 2 May for the TWF-YVR flights (I'm only 15 minutes from Joslin Field).
I'm more focused at this point in ensuring minimal loss or stress associated with lack of update/status and last minute changes as were experienced by the last 2 cruise passengers (LA-VAN coastal repositioning and VAN R/T Alaska). My cruise starts Friday 3 May and so far there has been no information provided as to the status of that cruise (go figure).
Now for the extra fun part and education for those who think travel insurance is the answer...
...only concern for loss of $ is the Marriott hotel booking using a Chase Bonvoy card for the night before the cruise; standard repositioning protocol. These Vancouver hotels have a 3 day cancelation cutoff after which you get the charge. So, I looked up the benefits associated with the Chase Marriott/Bonvoy card and it seemed to exclude this situation; only supports weather, illness or financial problems with cruise line. So, today I spend 45 minutes of phone hell with three different Chase/Marriott desks confirming that fact; they don't make it easy you know.
With zero information regarding the current status of the Cruise ship Radiance of the Seas and that 3 May cruise coming in hot, I decided to look for a more generous cancelation rate and found one at a different hotel chain; Radisson at the YVR airport. So, I will likely cancel the Marriott booking at the Westin Bayshore (giving them a couple of hours in hope of some kind of update) and plan on using the Radisson at YVR for a lower rate and the ability to cancel the day before I fly; better option under the circumstances.
To sum it up: Don't count on travel insurance with complex bookings and multiple servicer providers/carriers. Dump loyalty booking and go with the best available, lowest cost, flexible provider you can find. As for Air travel; what me worry? DL and AS both have cancel to flight credit/wallet options, so no need to insure ;-)
Cheers,
-Cyborg
Update: Tapped out of the Westin with the 3 day cancel requirement at T-11 hours. Next decision point is 1 May at Noon for the Radisson based on their policy. Have not thrown in the towel for the cruise on 3 May; for that call I have until 11am MDT on 2 May for the TWF-YVR flights (I'm only 15 minutes from Joslin Field).
Last edited by cyborg; Apr 29, 2024 at 1:39 pm Reason: Update for hotel decision points
Apr 29, 2024 | 4:04 pm
#6
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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-------------------
About Your Upcoming Travels
Dear Guest,As you may know, Radiance of the Seas encountered a technical issue with its propulsion system, resulting in the cancellation of our April 26th, 2024, sailing.
Repairs are still underway, and our teams are working diligently to address this issue. We want to assure you that we are doing everything possible to resolve it as quickly as we can. While we continue to make progress, we understand the importance of keeping you informed and will provide you with another update by May 2nd.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Sincerely,
Aurora Yera-Rodriguez
AVP | Guest Experience
Royal Caribbean International
------------------------------
The previous and similar notice for the 26 April cruise was posted on the RCCL website and then removed ... hmmm
Already you have reddit subs lit up about folks who are stressed about ending up like the last ones who were told nothing, then told to board, then told the ship is still being repaired, moved to the commercial pier, then told it is broke and debark tomorrow. Compensation aside, this is really looking like a repeat of not just last 2 weeks, but last year when they canceled two cruises to repair the propulsion system, a pro active approach.
I'm not that impacted aside from being a little stressed about travel details, recovery should they cancel after I arrive in Vancouver and so forth; being a Flyertalker and experienced traveler. But, hey...this company really lacks common courtesy when it comes to passenger information especially now when they have some recent experience in these matters. Makes me wonder what the insurance influence is from the Lloyds of London side. Are they gaming the system for max payouts with terms that are kept under wraps; e.g., insurance pays out to cruise line when mechanical failure happens after embarkation? Might make an interesting WSJ article if anyone cares to do the deep dive and publish.
More to follow on this one for sure.
Cheers,
-Cyborg
Apr 29, 2024 | 4:26 pm
#7
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Not sure what scope of work is required but the only nearby dry dock large enough is in Esquimalt (by Victoria) and it's currently occupied by the Norwegian Sun.
RoTS has to be moved by early tomorrow as 3 ships are arriving by the morning. One of them is the Ruby Princess which can't be more than 2 hours away at a slow putt. FWIW, I am on Marinetraffic a lot as I get to see what ships and going up and down the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Was surprised to see a Princess ship in Victoria today with another (Ruby P.) approaching but it was there just to pick up a pilot.
RoTS has to be moved by early tomorrow as 3 ships are arriving by the morning. One of them is the Ruby Princess which can't be more than 2 hours away at a slow putt. FWIW, I am on Marinetraffic a lot as I get to see what ships and going up and down the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Was surprised to see a Princess ship in Victoria today with another (Ruby P.) approaching but it was there just to pick up a pilot.
Apr 29, 2024 | 9:04 pm
#8
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Not sure what scope of work is required but the only nearby dry dock large enough is in Esquimalt (by Victoria) and it's currently occupied by the Norwegian Sun.
RoTS has to be moved by early tomorrow as 3 ships are arriving by the morning. One of them is the Ruby Princess which can't be more than 2 hours away at a slow putt. FWIW, I am on Marinetraffic a lot as I get to see what ships and going up and down the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Was surprised to see a Princess ship in Victoria today with another (Ruby P.) approaching but it was there just to pick up a pilot.
RoTS has to be moved by early tomorrow as 3 ships are arriving by the morning. One of them is the Ruby Princess which can't be more than 2 hours away at a slow putt. FWIW, I am on Marinetraffic a lot as I get to see what ships and going up and down the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Was surprised to see a Princess ship in Victoria today with another (Ruby P.) approaching but it was there just to pick up a pilot.
Edit: Looked it up on marinetraffic and it looks like it is radiance of the sea
Apr 29, 2024 | 9:53 pm
#9
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I know nothing of these ships but I saw one docked near the second narrows bridge on my drive to work this AM on the north side. Not sure I'd seen one there before but I suppose it would be a nice out of the way spot to get some work done.
Edit: Looked it up on marinetraffic and it looks like it is radiance of the sea
Edit: Looked it up on marinetraffic and it looks like it is radiance of the sea
Apr 30, 2024 | 2:24 pm
#10
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Apr 30, 2024 | 3:00 pm
#11
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One would think they'd at least take the thing off for a spin to confirm if the repairs hold under load. Doesn't seem to have moved since yesterday. I guess RCL figures if pax lose their nerves and cancel before RCL cancels, more money in RCL's pocket.
May 1, 2024 | 11:05 am
#13
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Made a booking on AS using wallet funds in case an "Abandon Ship" is needed on the 3rd. This may end up being a "Rolling Rebooking" as I embark and find out we are on another sail to nowhere...
Cheers,
-Cyborg
