Newbie Question - Cabbatoge
#1
Original Poster



Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Posts: 2,139
Newbie Question - Cabbatoge
So I have heard of, and will eventually do a San Francisco to Vancouver (or Seattle) Cruise when I can find the cheap one way deal.
But my question is, I get that you cant go San Francisco to Seattle directly because of cabbatoge.
So how is this possible?
http://www.princess.com/find/display...6512&tourCode=
LA to San Francisco? Is it possible to book that?
And any tips on finding / booking a cheap one night overnight from San Francisco?
But my question is, I get that you cant go San Francisco to Seattle directly because of cabbatoge.
So how is this possible?
http://www.princess.com/find/display...6512&tourCode=
LA to San Francisco? Is it possible to book that?
And any tips on finding / booking a cheap one night overnight from San Francisco?
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: FB PLT again afater a decade as plebian
Posts: 22,942
n your example, intermediate stops in the U.S. are fine, but you cannot (permanently) disembark. Well, you can but the cruise line will face a fine for contravention of the PVSA. So no legal way of sailing from one U.S. port to another U.S. port without a foreign "distant port" (such as a Panama canal transit).
You can go from California to Seattle, but you have to do it right. Limited dates but you can sail California to Vancouver, and get on another ship to Seattle (or same ship but sailing on a different day, may mean a long long laover in Vancouver).
Not much in way of 1 night cruises from SF. (Non-U.S. flagged) ships cannot sail far away enough in that time. 2 nts possibly but not 1.
BTW, cheap OW deals coming up if you don't care for specific cabins and can travel on short notice.
You can go from California to Seattle, but you have to do it right. Limited dates but you can sail California to Vancouver, and get on another ship to Seattle (or same ship but sailing on a different day, may mean a long long laover in Vancouver).
Not much in way of 1 night cruises from SF. (Non-U.S. flagged) ships cannot sail far away enough in that time. 2 nts possibly but not 1.
BTW, cheap OW deals coming up if you don't care for specific cabins and can travel on short notice.
Last edited by YVR Cockroach; Mar 20, 2015 at 4:32 pm
#3


Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,540
No, LA to SF cruise by non-American cruise line won't be allowed. You could be fined heavily if you decided to "self disembark" at SF as a final destination.
There are "cruise to nowhere" or "weekend getaway" itineraries which don't have any land days. Princess has one on May 15 from SF to YVR. I think NCL runs a few from NY occasionally. Disney Wonder has one from San Diego on May 15.
There are "cruise to nowhere" or "weekend getaway" itineraries which don't have any land days. Princess has one on May 15 from SF to YVR. I think NCL runs a few from NY occasionally. Disney Wonder has one from San Diego on May 15.
#4
Original Poster



Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Posts: 2,139
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: FB PLT again afater a decade as plebian
Posts: 22,942
vacationstogo.com
Areas would include repositioning, california coastal, pacific northwest.
For the short one-nights between Vancouver and Seattle, check Holland America and Princess sites. Possibly Norwegian too.
Be aware most lines charge 2x for solo occupancy though Holland America is said to charge only 50% extra for lower category cabins and some of the lines have single occupancy cabins.
Areas would include repositioning, california coastal, pacific northwest.
For the short one-nights between Vancouver and Seattle, check Holland America and Princess sites. Possibly Norwegian too.
Be aware most lines charge 2x for solo occupancy though Holland America is said to charge only 50% extra for lower category cabins and some of the lines have single occupancy cabins.
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,253
No, LA to SF cruise by non-American cruise line won't be allowed. You could be fined heavily if you decided to "self disembark" at SF as a final destination.
There are "cruise to nowhere" or "weekend getaway" itineraries which don't have any land days. Princess has one on May 15 from SF to YVR. I think NCL runs a few from NY occasionally. Disney Wonder has one from San Diego on May 15.
There are "cruise to nowhere" or "weekend getaway" itineraries which don't have any land days. Princess has one on May 15 from SF to YVR. I think NCL runs a few from NY occasionally. Disney Wonder has one from San Diego on May 15.
US rules which some refer to as cabotage, prohibit the foreign operator from selling domestic transport. They do not prohibit the passenger from disembarking. Thus, if you purchase Los Angeles - Vancouver with a stop in San Francisco and choose to disembark at San Francisco, you have done nothing wrong and nobody can or will stop you.
You simply will have paid for a longer and presumably more expensive cruise than you took.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: FB PLT again afater a decade as plebian
Posts: 22,942
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ore-the-end-of
http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fil...pvsa_icp_3.pdf
#9
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,253
Actually it does. Penalises the shipping line $300 per passenger who does so. Even for medical and emergency reasons it seems.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ore-the-end-of
http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fil...pvsa_icp_3.pdf
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ore-the-end-of
http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fil...pvsa_icp_3.pdf
#10
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 71
Often1,
It's not quite as simple as you suggest. The outdated PVSA law is consistent and observed by every cruise line that is not under a US flag. It only pertains to the majors, of course, since they sail under a foreign flag to avoid any number of U.S. laws, including taxation. It's a trade off since they would far rather avoid the occasional passenger defying the PVSA than face taxation, minimum wage, HEPA, EPA......and on and on.
The penalty is paid by the cruise line who in turn will bill the passenger. Cruise lines who do not manage this will be fined far beyond the $300 per person, which ultimately affects every cruise passenger.
The PVSA is often compared to another set of laws that prohibit foreign air carriers from flying domestic routes.
Cruise fans would love to board a ship on either coast and sail up or down without a stop in a foreign port. San Diego to Seattle sounds just as nice as Miami to Boston but it's not going to happen until the PVSA is eliminated.
It's not quite as simple as you suggest. The outdated PVSA law is consistent and observed by every cruise line that is not under a US flag. It only pertains to the majors, of course, since they sail under a foreign flag to avoid any number of U.S. laws, including taxation. It's a trade off since they would far rather avoid the occasional passenger defying the PVSA than face taxation, minimum wage, HEPA, EPA......and on and on.
The penalty is paid by the cruise line who in turn will bill the passenger. Cruise lines who do not manage this will be fined far beyond the $300 per person, which ultimately affects every cruise passenger.
The PVSA is often compared to another set of laws that prohibit foreign air carriers from flying domestic routes.
Cruise fans would love to board a ship on either coast and sail up or down without a stop in a foreign port. San Diego to Seattle sounds just as nice as Miami to Boston but it's not going to happen until the PVSA is eliminated.
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,871
http://www.hollandamerica.com/legalA...cy/Main.action for example >
certainly lots there, also including >
you hereby agree to pay any such fine or penalty imposed because of your failure to complete the entire Cruise.
Authority to Deny Transportation, Confine and Remove Passengers
#12

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Incorrect.
US rules which some refer to as cabotage, prohibit the foreign operator from selling domestic transport. They do not prohibit the passenger from disembarking. Thus, if you purchase Los Angeles - Vancouver with a stop in San Francisco and choose to disembark at San Francisco, you have done nothing wrong and nobody can or will stop you.
You simply will have paid for a longer and presumably more expensive cruise than you took.
US rules which some refer to as cabotage, prohibit the foreign operator from selling domestic transport. They do not prohibit the passenger from disembarking. Thus, if you purchase Los Angeles - Vancouver with a stop in San Francisco and choose to disembark at San Francisco, you have done nothing wrong and nobody can or will stop you.
You simply will have paid for a longer and presumably more expensive cruise than you took.
#13
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,154
I seriously doubt any cruise line would rush to put in a cruise like san diego to seattle even if the rules didn't prohibit it. I just don't believe the demand is there for that type of cruise. Even the california coastal cruises with the obligatory ensenada stop I don't think are all that popular. If cruise lines thought that route would be popular enough to warrant doing it, they'd probably already be doing something like a san diego to vancouver route.
#15




Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 5,212
I seriously doubt any cruise line would rush to put in a cruise like san diego to seattle even if the rules didn't prohibit it. I just don't believe the demand is there for that type of cruise. Even the california coastal cruises with the obligatory ensenada stop I don't think are all that popular. If cruise lines thought that route would be popular enough to warrant doing it, they'd probably already be doing something like a san diego to vancouver route.

