Last edit by: phltraveler
LINK TO PROPOSED VISA/MASTERCARD SETTLEMENT AS OF 2024/03/27
Some highlights:
Some highlights:
- Visa and MC will each permit brand and product level (Visa Infinite Qualified, Infinite Non Qualified, Signature Preferred, Signature non-preferred, rewards, others, etc.) surcharging on credit only (which they have prior to this settlement). Pages 25-28 for Visa.
- Visa and MC will allow discounting that vary by the issuer (bank) of both debit and credit cards on those networks (Pg 22, paragraph 19 for Visa)
- Visa and MC will allow merchants to not accept non-credit Visa cards like debit and prepaid, although this will initially be a pilot limited to 20% of stores under the same banner. (pages 23-24 for Visa)
- Issuers will be allowed to accept digital wallets at some stores but not others, but it must be network agnostic (page 24-25).
- Visa/MC will lower their average merchant interchange by 7 basis points average effective (including network fees, flat amounts like 10 cents per transaction, etc.) on average across credit transactions the next update of their interchange schedule for five years. (page 32-35 for Visa)
- Visa/MC will reduce the base interchange rates themselves by at least 4 basis points for a period of no less than three years, or 4 cents per every $100 of charge volume. For interchange that is a fixed amount ($1 flat, for example), it will be at least four basis points effective. (page 35 for Visa).
2024 VISA/Mastercard Interchange Settlement
#46
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The Networks establish the base fees. Typically the Merchant has a contract with their Acquirer (the company which processes card transactions for the Merchant) which defines their fees.The fee is shared by the Acquirer, the Issuer (Chase), and the Network (VISA). But, yes, if the fee is lower, or capped, the issuer receives less.
Last edited by mia; Mar 30, 2024 at 7:13 pm
#47


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Why did Visa/MC agree to the settlement? The legal theory was questionable at best, since if they didn't like CC interchange fees they could go back to only accepting cash or debit, or even checks. Imagine if I complained that Rolex watches were too expensive and I'm being overcharged. I'd be told buy a Casio instead as a reasonable substitute and stop whining.
#48


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Ultimately, the only thing that has been shown to actually reduce interchange so far is a hard legally-mandated cap. I don't think we're politically there yet but I can see the US getting to that point eventually if people get fed up enough (even if we don't end up capping to as low levels as the EU).
#49


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Why did Visa/MC agree to the settlement? The legal theory was questionable at best, since if they didn't like CC interchange fees they could go back to only accepting cash or debit, or even checks. Imagine if I complained that Rolex watches were too expensive and I'm being overcharged. I'd be told buy a Casio instead as a reasonable substitute and stop whining.
A settlement allows all parties to save face, compromise, and avoid the worst possible outcome on either end. Yes, Visa/MC could prevail in their entirety and the class could get told to suck it. Or Visa/MC have major parts of how they run their relationship and billing to merchants declared unlawful. Beyond the odds of prevailing, sometimes parties get bruised along the way with ugly, ugly, ugly content (emails, presentations, memos, etc.) found during legal discovery. This is why classes that don't get summary judgment dismissal are usually settled instead of companies chancing taking them to trial.
Your watch comparison falls flat because it's pretty easy for me to go to any of dozens of watch brands, buy a watch, and then use it anywhere to tell the time. The network has to be held by the cardholder on a product AND the merchant has to understand it. It'd be like if each watchmaker had a different readout of the time (not just styling, but functionally to understand the time displayed as if we're talking English vs. Spanish vs. Chinese as languages) and you had to be able to display the time to someone else with them being able to understand it. Imagine this scenario and then imagine if 90%+ of the watches were made by Citizen and Rolex.
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Why would consumers be fed up? If the EU experience has proved anything it's that capped fees were never about consumers, who saw not a cent of reduced prices despite a media campaign attempting to convince them to believe that would be their benefit, but about catering to producers who wanted to increase their profits. This was easily foreseeable of course, in the same way that tax credits for electric cars and air conditioners always inure to the benefit of the producer, never the consumer. If the government introduced a million dollar tax credit for new home insulation I guarantee the very next day it would cost a million dollars to reinsulate your house.
#51


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The over 9000 entry court docket for the class. Tons of defendants, tons of plaintiffs, tons of cases merged into this one for the purpose of hearing similar claims/expediting expert witness deposition and discovery, etc.
Other lawsuits by the 7-Eleven and Home Depot and Grubhub groups are attempting to be continued. Grubhub is trying to remand out their case from the settlement on the grounds of all mutual claims being addressed in the settlement and other claims deserving jury trial.
Several merchants plan to object to the proposed settlement with a schedule (as of now, subject to change, these things are frequently delayed by mutual agreement of plaintiff/defendant attorneys and the court) of April 26th for objections, replies to objections May 13th, and an in-person hearing with oral argument for preliminary approval of the proposed settlement on June 13th.
Again though - don't be surprised if these dates get pushed out.
Other lawsuits by the 7-Eleven and Home Depot and Grubhub groups are attempting to be continued. Grubhub is trying to remand out their case from the settlement on the grounds of all mutual claims being addressed in the settlement and other claims deserving jury trial.
Several merchants plan to object to the proposed settlement with a schedule (as of now, subject to change, these things are frequently delayed by mutual agreement of plaintiff/defendant attorneys and the court) of April 26th for objections, replies to objections May 13th, and an in-person hearing with oral argument for preliminary approval of the proposed settlement on June 13th.
Again though - don't be surprised if these dates get pushed out.
#52


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So the talks on the settlement were held and, per the Wall Street Journal, the court is unlikely to approve the settlement. (Archive link if you hit a paywall.)
I can't say I'm surprised - merchants correctly called that this was a very temporary and limited concession by Visa/MC and postured they'd rather take their chances at trial.
The written decision by the judge is pending, but per the article a filing on the docket indicates the judge told the parties to the case she is unlikely to approve it.
I can't say I'm surprised - merchants correctly called that this was a very temporary and limited concession by Visa/MC and postured they'd rather take their chances at trial.
The written decision by the judge is pending, but per the article a filing on the docket indicates the judge told the parties to the case she is unlikely to approve it.
#53

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Judge rejects Visa, Mastercard $30B settlement over controversial swipe fees
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...es/ar-BB1oSb2b
“The next step, presumably, is a trial”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...es/ar-BB1oSb2b
“The next step, presumably, is a trial”
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So who came to the agreement - not the merchants and the card companies? (obviously, there a millions of merchants, so not all of them were possibly involved)
#55


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So going back a couple months, the judge posted an 88 page opinion on the rejection of Visa/MC's proposed settlement.
There was also this analysis.
Some key points on why the proposed settlement really didn't make sense for the plaintiffs (was not equitable/fair):
Less than 1% of class actions ever go to trial. This case has been going on since the 2005. It stands closer to trial now.
The docket is a complete mess of complexity at over 9300 documents in sequence. Documents. Not pages. This also excludes exhibits/attachments within docket #s, which can also be multiple pages. Some third parties trying to attract merchants to file made misleading claims. Other merchants were not aware they could file without going through a third party. There's mailers to let potential merchants know if they're eligible. There's associated other lawsuits between merchants and payment processors. It is a quagmire. Some plaintiffs have other related lawsuits scheduled separately and don't want the class action trial to occur before their other trials (meaning they don't want it scheduled in April/May 2025). The Airbnb plaintiffs jointly dismissed their claims with prejudice in late July (meaning they can't go back and file claims over the same issue), suggesting they got some sort of relief from Visa/MC.)
There's also multiple parties that submitted fraudulent claims. Many used third parties for leads, and then these individuals either lied to merchants, or made up the lead (fake business, or saying a business agreed to be represented when they didn't.)
I expect to hear nothing for some time. This could go on for years to come, depending on the motions of different plaintiffs and defendant responses in turn...
There was also this analysis.
Some key points on why the proposed settlement really didn't make sense for the plaintiffs (was not equitable/fair):
- The proposed relief, as discussed earlier here, is far far short of what the "best possible scenario" at trial would be. Visa/MC have tried time and time again to get the case dismissed via summary judgment and failed. This puts the plaintiffs in a strong position.
- The settlement inadequately represented the larger merchants in the class, with smaller merchants trading some relief at the expense of larger merchants. Larger merchants already negotiate custom interchange rates with the networks, so reductions on the standard rates do them no good.
- The proposed settlement allowed for 1% credit surcharging even if they didn't surcharge other cards. However, the larger retailer plaintiffs both operate in states that prohibit surcharging, and that accept American Express (which prohibits issuer level surcharging).
- Larger merchants want to take Visa/MC to court over "honor all cards" rules (e.g. that if you accept Visa, you can't say all visa except Signature/Infinite). The proposed settlement only allowed 120 day pilot programs at up to 20% of their national locations to do so.
- The proposed settlement also eliminated the "honor all wallets" rule for digital wallets, but it had an important carve out: Merchants would not be able to refuse Visa/MC issued cards in digital wallets made/operated directly by Visa/MC.
- The merchants gave expert testimony that interchange could be lowered by 100 basis points versus current in a competitive landscape (non-duopoly), which makes the four basis point reduction / 7 basis point average effective rate reduction paltry in comparison.
- The proposed settlement would have required Visa/MC to release Visa and MC from antitrust claims for five years, which the judge agreed was not fair. The judge also pointed out that Visa/MC are fine in markets like Canada and the EU where interchange is regulated far lower than the US, and that they could withstand a far great judgment at trial.
Less than 1% of class actions ever go to trial. This case has been going on since the 2005. It stands closer to trial now.
The docket is a complete mess of complexity at over 9300 documents in sequence. Documents. Not pages. This also excludes exhibits/attachments within docket #s, which can also be multiple pages. Some third parties trying to attract merchants to file made misleading claims. Other merchants were not aware they could file without going through a third party. There's mailers to let potential merchants know if they're eligible. There's associated other lawsuits between merchants and payment processors. It is a quagmire. Some plaintiffs have other related lawsuits scheduled separately and don't want the class action trial to occur before their other trials (meaning they don't want it scheduled in April/May 2025). The Airbnb plaintiffs jointly dismissed their claims with prejudice in late July (meaning they can't go back and file claims over the same issue), suggesting they got some sort of relief from Visa/MC.)
There's also multiple parties that submitted fraudulent claims. Many used third parties for leads, and then these individuals either lied to merchants, or made up the lead (fake business, or saying a business agreed to be represented when they didn't.)
I expect to hear nothing for some time. This could go on for years to come, depending on the motions of different plaintiffs and defendant responses in turn...
#56
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A direct link to the PDF file.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...7.9342.0_3.pdf
Here is a link to the docket:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...unt-antitrust/
Those who are interested in the cases filed in federal courts should consider signing up for a free PACER (Public Access to Court Electronic Records) account with the federal judiciary.
https://pacer.uscourts.gov/register-account
One does need a credit card to sign up, since documents are priced at $0.10 per page, with a maximum of $3.00 per document. However, they are free when downloading 300 charged pages or fewer per calendar quarter.
I would encourage non-lawyers and lawyers alike with PACER accounts to also install the RECAP (PACER spelled backwards) extension in their browsers. This improvement by a non-profit organization creates a database of court documents for us all to access for free.
https://free.law/recap
Every time you download a PACER court document using the RECAP extension, a copy is uploaded to the RECAP website for future free open access to these public documents by all.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...7.9342.0_3.pdf
Here is a link to the docket:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...unt-antitrust/
Those who are interested in the cases filed in federal courts should consider signing up for a free PACER (Public Access to Court Electronic Records) account with the federal judiciary.
https://pacer.uscourts.gov/register-account
One does need a credit card to sign up, since documents are priced at $0.10 per page, with a maximum of $3.00 per document. However, they are free when downloading 300 charged pages or fewer per calendar quarter.
I would encourage non-lawyers and lawyers alike with PACER accounts to also install the RECAP (PACER spelled backwards) extension in their browsers. This improvement by a non-profit organization creates a database of court documents for us all to access for free.
https://free.law/recap
Every time you download a PACER court document using the RECAP extension, a copy is uploaded to the RECAP website for future free open access to these public documents by all.
Last edited by SPN Lifer; Sep 7, 2024 at 10:47 pm
#57
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I guess I am glad IANAL



