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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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2012-2015 2016

What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Dec 25, 2019, 11:37 am
  #5866  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
I definitely agree on this. Gas stations are a tough business, especially tough to make money for these single station operators. Faced with a huge cost to re-do pumps is just not economically viable for many of these small operators to deploy what are some very high cost improvements to make EMV work (new pump hardware, different wiring between the pumps and store, etc.). I really think at this point these people who own stations that are branded and are stuck in 10-20 year branding agreements that "require" pay at the pump as a condition of having a given brand, are waiting for the oil companies to come in with some kind of solution to this that will somehow cost less. The solution would be to forget about contact EMV at the pump entirely and convert the pumps to tap only. If you don't want to tap or can't tap, then you get to go pay inside. No more swipe which has all the skimming/fraud issues, no contact EMV reader that customers keep breaking because they don't understand the concept of "DO NOT REMOVE CARD," etc.
As mentioned before, I feel like the same challenges preventing EMV at the pump are going to be in play for contactless-only pumps. Maybe if Visa still allowed MSD mode and the other networks weren't trying to deprecate it, it'd be less of a challenge. Even then, there are some pretty old pumps out there that might need to be replaced or significantly overhauled anyway, which franchisees are already hesitant to do.

Originally Posted by storewanderer
I think it is going to take the card networks literally telling these operators either you upgrade to something that runs EMV or you cannot process cards anymore, to make this happen. Same goes for many restaurants in the US who continue to take cards away and swipe.
I find that newer restaurants are doing EMV upon opening. The issue is that many don't really want to do pay at the table, so they were waiting for solutions (e.g. Toast, Clover's newer hardware) that would save them from doing it. Hell, even some counter service restaurants don't seem to care about customer facing equipment/contactless all that much as Toast does seem to be getting some adoption around here.

Speaking of customer facing stuff, I had to call AAA yesterday to come out and jump/give me a new battery. The tow driver used a SwipeSimple device plugged into his phone to run the payment for the battery and actually used the chip (I didn't see the contactless logo, so I think he only had the EMV one). I think non-restaurants seem more okay with portable readers, even if they are mostly devices plugged into phones instead of dedicated devices from Ingenico and Verifone as done outside the US--which makes sense given how late we were with EMV and portable readers in general.

Originally Posted by storewanderer
I was in a small rural independent grocer recently in CA, with two NCR registers and MX915s. Very small operation, likely little to no fraud given how remote it is, they don't sell gift cards, etc. They had the chip reader duct taped over and said swipe or tap only. Previously, they accepted chip. I asked why no more chip and the guy running the register (owner) said so we don't have to pay $2,500 per month for the software. I commented isn't Chip required though and he said "that's what they want you to think, but they let us disable it and go back to the old cheaper way for now."
Good luck with that given that Visa supposedly requires EMV contactless. (Whether that's being enforced, however, is a different question.)
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Old Dec 27, 2019, 8:37 pm
  #5867  
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Bank of America Asiana/Travel Rewards Chip and PIN?

I know the card is set by default to Chip and Signature, but that's not how the rest of the world works. I just read that Bank of America cards (maybe only Travel Rewards?) can be set to Chip and PIN so that I can use it abroad? Is this true? What about the BoA Asiana Visa? Any details on how this work?

Thank you.
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Old Dec 27, 2019, 9:15 pm
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my Boa TR visa and Cash Rewards visa has a page to set PIN online.

dont have asiana, don't know about it

do note that BoA isn't setup for PIN priority and is online PIN only AFAIK

chip&sig has higher priority than chip&pin. some standalone terminals require offline PIN and would reject BoA, or is misconfigured and would reject chip&signature instead of looking for the lower priority chip&pin

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31819296-post5826.html
was able to use chip&pin at a belgium railway station, though kinda useless (same terminal accepts my chase sapphire chip without any issues)
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Old Dec 30, 2019, 5:35 am
  #5869  
 
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Originally Posted by lsquare
I know the card is set by default to Chip and Signature, but that's not how the rest of the world works. I just read that Bank of America cards (maybe only Travel Rewards?) can be set to Chip and PIN so that I can use it abroad? Is this true? What about the BoA Asiana Visa? Any details on how this work?

Thank you.
The authentication methods are used in order based on the list on the card. B of A credit cards support online PIN but signature is listed first. That means that at an attended terminal (e.g. a grocery store with a human cashier), you will always be prompted to sign because signature is listed first. At an unattended terminal (e.g. a gas pump or ticket vending machine) that supports online PIN, you'll be prompted for a PIN because online PIN is listed before no CVM.

The list order is set by the issuer when the card is manufactured and can't be changed.

AFAIK all B of A Visa credit cards are the same--signature preferred, online PIN supported, offline PIN not supported. This setup is the same as the vast majority of US debit cards when running through the credit network.

Originally Posted by paperwastage
was able to use chip&pin at a belgium railway station, though kinda useless (same terminal accepts my chase sapphire chip without any issues)
This is a recent fix--NMBS (railways) and MIVB (Brussels metro) vending machines used to refuse signature-only cards but will now process them no CVM. I don't know when they reconfigured their terminals but it has to have been sometime in the last ~6 months. There may be a transaction limit, but you'd have to be buying multiple long-distance train tickets or several 10-ride metro tickets to find it.
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Last edited by der_saeufer; Dec 30, 2019 at 5:48 am
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Old Dec 30, 2019, 11:49 am
  #5870  
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Originally Posted by der_saeufer
The authentication methods are used in order based on the list on the card. B of A credit cards support online PIN but signature is listed first. That means that at an attended terminal (e.g. a grocery store with a human cashier), you will always be prompted to sign because signature is listed first. At an unattended terminal (e.g. a gas pump or ticket vending machine) that supports online PIN, you'll be prompted for a PIN because online PIN is listed before no CVM.
Actually, online PIN is last on BofA credit cards (and has been for a while). Depending on where you're going, it's very possible you'll never be asked for it, even at unattended terminals. I'm pretty sure they changed it to ensure that their cards have pre-EMV behavior when used in the US, especially since there are at least a few unattended terminals that do EMV now.

Originally Posted by der_saeufer
The list order is set by the issuer when the card is manufactured and can't be changed.
Someone here mentioned being able to set their corporate AmEx to PIN preferring without needing a replacement card before. However, I imagine Quick Chip makes stuff like that untenable now.
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Old Dec 31, 2019, 2:37 am
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Actually, online PIN is last on BofA credit cards (and has been for a while). Depending on where you're going, it's very possible you'll never be asked for it, even at unattended terminals. I'm pretty sure they changed it to ensure that their cards have pre-EMV behavior when used in the US, especially since there are at least a few unattended terminals that do EMV now.
Noted... mine definitely still prompts for the PIN at rail ticket machines that work no-CVM with Chase cards but the B of A card is a couple years old. I'll have to try it again when they renew it or quit being lazy and fire up Cardpeek.

...I suppose the terminal could be programmed to try twice in an attempt to 'force' PIN. That'd be weird but I wouldn't put anything past the railway system here.
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Old Dec 31, 2019, 2:50 am
  #5872  
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Originally Posted by der_saeufer
Noted... mine definitely still prompts for the PIN at rail ticket machines that work no-CVM with Chase cards but the B of A card is a couple years old. I'll have to try it again when they renew it or quit being lazy and fire up Cardpeek.

...I suppose the terminal could be programmed to try twice in an attempt to 'force' PIN. That'd be weird but I wouldn't put anything past the railway system here.
It's possible to have a default CVM if CVM processing fails for whatever reason. That means they could theoretically support only PIN but attempt authorization without CVM if PIN isn't supported (without needing to redo the transaction or decline offline). If your BofA card is as described above, this might very well be what's happening.
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Old Dec 31, 2019, 6:00 am
  #5873  
 
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Originally Posted by der_saeufer
Noted... mine definitely still prompts for the PIN at rail ticket machines that work no-CVM with Chase cards but the B of A card is a couple years old. I'll have to try it again when they renew it or quit being lazy and fire up Cardpeek.

...I suppose the terminal could be programmed to try twice in an attempt to 'force' PIN. That'd be weird but I wouldn't put anything past the railway system here.
Couple of years sounds about right where they changed it. I think mine was renewed in the last year and a half, the previous one had C&S, Online PIN, No CVM. The new one has C&S, No CVM, Online PIN as tmiw indicated (I do stick every new card into Cardpeek).
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Old Jan 1, 2020, 9:39 am
  #5874  
 
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Originally Posted by dmapr
Couple of years sounds about right where they changed it. I think mine was renewed in the last year and a half, the previous one had C&S, Online PIN, No CVM. The new one has C&S, No CVM, Online PIN as tmiw indicated (I do stick every new card into Cardpeek).
Originally Posted by tmiw
It's possible to have a default CVM if CVM processing fails for whatever reason. That means they could theoretically support only PIN but attempt authorization without CVM if PIN isn't supported (without needing to redo the transaction or decline offline). If your BofA card is as described above, this might very well be what's happening.
Originally Posted by der_saeufer
Noted... mine definitely still prompts for the PIN at rail ticket machines that work no-CVM with Chase cards but the B of A card is a couple years old. I'll have to try it again when they renew it or quit being lazy and fire up Cardpeek.

...I suppose the terminal could be programmed to try twice in an attempt to 'force' PIN. That'd be weird but I wouldn't put anything past the railway system here.
my boa tr is a newly (re)-issued card with contactless.... dont have something to use with cardpeek though

you can/should request a new card just for the contactless - much easier time in london this time using contactless versus chip&wave-down-a-tesco-employee-to-sign. i think they should be rolling contactless out for everyone

I did use the new tr card via chip&wave-down-a-m&s-employee-to-sign, no luck with chip&pin there at a manned/unmanned kiosk

Last edited by paperwastage; Jan 1, 2020 at 10:21 am
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Old Jan 1, 2020, 9:59 am
  #5875  
 
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Originally Posted by paperwastage
my boa tr is a newly (re)-issued card with contactless.... dont have something to use with cardpeek though

you can/should request a new card just for the contactless - much easier time in london this time using contactless versus chip&wave-down-a-tesco-employee-to-sign. i think they should be rolling contactless out for everyone
Oh right, they did send me a contactless last summer, but it has the same CVM priorities as the previous one. You're right, it's much simpler to use
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Old Jan 1, 2020, 11:21 am
  #5876  
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Originally Posted by paperwastage
my boa tr is a newly (re)-issued card with contactless.... dont have something to use with cardpeek though

you can/should request a new card just for the contactless - much easier time in london this time using contactless versus chip&wave-down-a-tesco-employee-to-sign. i think they should be rolling contactless out for everyone

I did use the new tr card via chip&wave-down-a-m&s-employee-to-sign, no luck with chip&pin there at a manned/unmanned kiosk
To confirm, you live outside of NYC/SF/Boston and you got a contactless card from BofA?
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Old Jan 1, 2020, 11:37 am
  #5877  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
To confirm, you live outside of NYC/SF/Boston and you got a contactless card from BofA?
I live in the SF Bay Area (but not in San Francisco proper) and just got new BofA debit and cash rewards cards within the last two weeks. I was surprised they were not contactless.
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Old Jan 1, 2020, 12:01 pm
  #5878  
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Originally Posted by bullfrog
I live in the SF Bay Area (but not in San Francisco proper) and just got new BofA debit and cash rewards cards within the last two weeks. I was surprised they were not contactless.
I'm not sure we've heard of anyone outside of NYC getting them, to be honest. They might have reduced the scope of their trial given that there's no open loop contactless for transit at the other two.
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Old Jan 1, 2020, 12:17 pm
  #5879  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
To confirm, you live outside of NYC/SF/Boston and you got a contactless card from BofA?
sorry, im in the nyc region. thought boa extended it, but i guess not yet
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Old Jan 1, 2020, 7:15 pm
  #5880  
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Just landed at LAS. Apparently the Enterprise location at the rental car center does not have MX915s at the front counter like I've seen at a few others; my card was swiped when I picked up the car. I think their self-serve kiosks may have some sort of chip capable reader, however, but I didn't get a close enough look to be sure. Weirdly they didn't have any sort of option to have a CC# on file/pay in advance when I reserved the car, so I had assumed that they were forcing EMV on all pickups.

Anyway, I guess some day I'll end up using EMV to pay for a rental car in the US--but not this trip.
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