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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Apr 22, 2019, 10:59 pm
  #5041  
 
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Looks like the next wave of re-terminalisation is starting to happen in Canada. I’ve been seeing Ingenico iCT250 and iWLs being replaced with Desk/5000 and Move/5000, and Verifone VX820s being replaced with P200 or P400 PIN pads.
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Old Apr 22, 2019, 11:51 pm
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Last week I was at a Burger King that had VX820s but was still swipe only. As someone who doesn't normally dine at Burger King, what's going on there?
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 12:07 am
  #5043  
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Originally Posted by diburning
Last week I was at a Burger King that had VX820s but was still swipe only. As someone who doesn't normally dine at Burger King, what's going on there?
I made my annual visit to Burger King last week. It was swipe only but I was able to tap my card. The cashier thought it was really neat.

Unfortunately my order of chicken tenders never happened. The guy in the back told the cashier "no more tenders" as I was paying and the cashier interpreted that to mean they had to cook some and told me it would be 6 minutes. I said okay. I waited about 10 minutes and the cashier yelled back to the cook where are those tenders? The cook then got angry at the cashier and said I told you we have no more tenders. The cashier said "you mean none in the freezer?" then the cook said again "yes I told you no more tenders." So I was given a refund. The VX820 processed the refund also.
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 12:08 am
  #5044  
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Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
I went to PF Chang's today for lunch. They have what look like chip capable terminals attached to the right side of their ordering screen. They have had these for a while, but when I went to pay today, I saw my waitress swipe my card. With their history of having a major data breach, I'm shocked that they still haven't gone live with EMV yet. The next time, they will have to absorb 100% of the loss themselves because they're not EMV compliant. Fools.
As mentioned many times in the past, if they had no intention of ever doing EMV, why buy the equipment? It's not like they're prohibited from using the stuff they've been using up until now.

(BTW, are the PIN pads recent? Last time I went to PF Chang's, there were none to be seen. Granted, that was a while ago.)

Originally Posted by diburning
Last week I was at a Burger King that had VX820s but was still swipe only. As someone who doesn't normally dine at Burger King, what's going on there?
Not sure. Some here that have had the chip slots covered no longer do, but that might have been due to franchisees not being allowed to put their own stuff over them.
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 10:25 am
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Originally Posted by tmiw
As mentioned many times in the past, if they had no intention of ever doing EMV, why buy the equipment? It's not like they're prohibited from using the stuff they've been using up until now.

(BTW, are the PIN pads recent? Last time I went to PF Chang's, there were none to be seen. Granted, that was a while ago.)



Not sure. Some here that have had the chip slots covered no longer do, but that might have been due to franchisees not being allowed to put their own stuff over them.
I have noticed NCR locations having EMV, SICOM locations don’t yet.
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 10:58 am
  #5046  
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
I have noticed NCR locations having EMV, SICOM locations don’t yet.
Yeah, the ones here are predominantly Sicom so I might be waiting a while.
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 12:27 pm
  #5047  
 
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
I have noticed NCR locations having EMV, SICOM locations don’t yet.
The last time I went to my NCR BK's they did not have emv enabled yet so it may still be rolling out and I'm sure they will have it soon if not already.
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 3:02 pm
  #5048  
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Saw this on my USPS receipt today:



(This was with the Arrival+.)

Think I would be asked for PIN if I were to spend more than $50 at the front counter? I was under the impression that I'm not supposed to need to enter one at all for any attended terminals.

BTW, I also found out that the kiosks reject all transactions > $50, even if the card needs a PIN. I was under the impression that this wasn't allowed by Visa/MC rules either. Weirdly, it seems to go through most of the transaction (including needing to enter a PIN if required) before rejecting the card.
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 5:10 pm
  #5049  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Saw this on my USPS receipt today:



(This was with the Arrival+.)

Think I would be asked for PIN if I were to spend more than $50 at the front counter? I was under the impression that I'm not supposed to need to enter one at all for any attended terminals.

BTW, I also found out that the kiosks reject all transactions > $50, even if the card needs a PIN. I was under the impression that this wasn't allowed by Visa/MC rules either. Weirdly, it seems to go through most of the transaction (including needing to enter a PIN if required) before rejecting the card.
I renewed my PO Box with my EMV'ed Marriott Visa card for $102: no CVM.
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Old Apr 23, 2019, 5:56 pm
  #5050  
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger
I renewed my PO Box with my EMV'ed Marriott Visa card for $102: no CVM.
That's expected since PIN isn't supported for purchases on Chase cards. Being asked for a PIN on a signature-preferring card, on the other hand, isn't. It's almost like USPS disabled the signature CVM entirely instead of continuing to select it and just not asking for one.

That said, I'm not sure that would be testable before USPS, say, fixes this oversight.
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Old Apr 24, 2019, 2:52 pm
  #5051  
 
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Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
Does anyone know if Subway supports online PIN?
Looks like the answer is no. I went in there again today and used my Capital One 360 debit card which has PIN priority on both the debit and credit AIDs. It went through with no PIN or signature on the credit AID A0000000041010. Next time I'm going to try a card with offline PIN only and see if I get prompted to enter a PIN. I believe I will based on how my First Tech card worked which supports both online and offline PIN. I was prompted with that card and I suspect it was offline based on the TVR.
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Old Apr 24, 2019, 3:15 pm
  #5052  
 
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
I have noticed NCR locations having EMV, SICOM locations don’t yet.
I just went to BK for lunch and my NCR BK has EMV but ctls is still msd only but works great its strong even on vx820s.
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Old Apr 24, 2019, 4:18 pm
  #5053  
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I went to the manned registers at McDonald's for the first time in a while (location I went to didn't have kiosks) and the display now says "insert/tap/swipe card" before the cashier pushes the credit button on their end. Looks like they might have joined the Quick Chip train considering how long they've had EMV contactless.

BTW the receipt didn't have any PIN language on it (tapped a MC in Google Pay).
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Old Apr 24, 2019, 5:32 pm
  #5054  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I went to the manned registers at McDonald's for the first time in a while (location I went to didn't have kiosks) and the display now says "insert/tap/swipe card" before the cashier pushes the credit button on their end. Looks like they might have joined the Quick Chip train considering how long they've had EMV contactless.

BTW the receipt didn't have any PIN language on it (tapped a MC in Google Pay).
They did for sure I noticed recently that the chip worked a lot differently so its Quick Chip for sure. I wonder if Dunkin will join them soon as they both use Point and EMV contactless for awhile too.
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Old Apr 24, 2019, 9:39 pm
  #5055  
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Originally Posted by scibot
They did for sure I noticed recently that the chip worked a lot differently so its Quick Chip for sure. I wonder if Dunkin will join them soon as they both use Point and EMV contactless for awhile too.
Actually, Dunkin' Donuts has had QC for a bit. It got turned on when they got EMV contactless, IIRC.

BTW, 20% of the listings on the EMV map (84,301 out of 419,096) now have QC. It's likely higher than stated, too, but I'm not sure by how much.
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