can you please explain? Not really following your shorthand.

Cherry pick: https://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/3939?page=2 #27

AE: American Express

Sometimes the AmEx rate could be off 1-2% compared to the Visa or MasterCard rates. With UnionPay, the rates are a little higher than Visa or MasterCard (up 0.25% to 0.5%), but one is still ahead compared to the most generous DCC offer. In the case of a USD denominated AmEx, you'd be fine charging in a place like China or Hong Kong because the exchange rate is more or less fixed. A charge in euros or pounds might produce a slightly worse exchange rate (although still ahead of DCC). Some places like Australia have a higher surcharge for AmEx than a Visa or MC. However, I still use AmEx wherever practical overseas. On average, the exchange rates among Visa, MC, and AmEx have been more or less a toss up.

I've never seen Amex rates be meaningfully worse than Visa rates. MasterCard and Discover are almost always tied best and Visa is usually the worst (rarely, Amex can be slightly worse). To me, avoiding DCC matters more than the slight exchange rate difference.

Amex may not be the perfect anti-DCC solution forever. Several years ago they added some language to UK card agreements permitting it, and now I'm seeing rare reports on here that it has actually been seen in the wild. Not enough to be sure, could be multi currency processing, but still.

Is UnionPay worth having? I've thought of opening an ICBC account but their website seems like such a mess...

I agree that avoiding DCC is reason alone to use AmEx, even if the exchange rate is slightly worse. I've found no material difference among the exchange rates over time. While the language was added to UK agreements, I haven't seen any substantiated reports about allowing DCC over the AmEx network. I imagine it's multicurrency processing being mistaken for DCC. Until we start seeing the DCC verbiage on AmEx receipts, I don't think there's cause for concern.

UnionPay is great if you're traveling to China. There's not much utility outside of China/HK/Macau. In terms of acceptance and DCC avoidance in Mainland China, it's the best card option. While Discover works in theory, the switch to EMV broke Discover support in China. Merchants - some of whom were already reluctant to try a Discover card - are not even more reluctant because it requires swiping a Discover card in China. It's just like how I have never had a successful chip transaction with my UnionPay card in the US; every transaction has been fallback. There are also cases now of non-Mainland China UnionPay cards failing in the Mainland China, including HK and US issued UnionPay cards.

Got hit with this in Radisson Delhi Airport, again. Sent an email and demanded I be recharged in rupees, was about a 5% loss

Did they offer a choice upon checkout, or was it back office DCC?

Offered a choice and still charged me in dollars anyway.

Update: Fought with hotel, they charged me in local currency then refunded me in local currency as well. In the end hotel gave me 5000 points to go away, worth about $35.

Thanks for the update!

Just back from India. Seems it is a well versed scam to hit people with DCC. Card is run through the machine, paper comes out, clerk grabs paper and fiddles with it behind the counter, staples it to the receipt, fiddles behind the counter and hands it back in an envelope. I grab it all and head off to the waiting taxi. Only on checking later is the credit card receipt evident with the INR or my local currency (AUD) showing with the "tick the box". The DCC option is not explained to me by the counter clerk inspite of the receipt stating the DCC has been offered. Upon emailing the hotel and complaining, I'm told "you didn't check a box so we automatically charge the DCC amount by policy".

Happened twice in different places. Same fiddling to delay things, same DCC charge. Total loss about (equivalent to) US$50.

DCC is rampant in India, and compliance with the payment network policies is marginal at best. Even if you tell the merchant, half of the time you still get stuck with DCC there. Which hotels were these? You can always file a chargeback with your issuer, but I don't have experience with an Australian card issuer.

It was the Hans Hotel in Delhi (near Barakhambha Metro Station). The other place was a small shop in IXB airport (Bagdogra, West Bengal). My card is a MC from "28 degrees Mastercard". Free Australian issued card, no 3% FX fees but no loyalty points program. They have handled a previous charge-back with clarity, efficiency and enthusiasm. I'll phone about a charge back - thanks.

There was another scam courtesy of the Vodaphone outlet in the middle ring road of Connaught Place, but that's for another time and not related to DCC.

Survived India without DCC last week, but that was because I paid cash at all outlets I previously knew would DCC me. :p

Today I did a weekly rental from Europcar in Munich. While handing my CSR to the agent I said: 'make sure you are charging me in EUR'. Sure enough he read me what pop up he received after swiping the card: 'Ask customer if he agrees to be charged in the currency of the issuing bank using a favorable exchange rate....' It took us a while to figure out whether to answer Y or N to the question. :rolleyes: