Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Aug 4, 2020, 7:59 pm
#8626
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
That didn't take long; the Taco Bell cashier working the drive through today inserted my card for me. Not sure if it was just that one cashier or if the location/company is going back to not handing the terminal out unless you ask to use Apple Pay or similar.
Maybe it grabbed address info from a loyalty program of some sort?
Maybe it grabbed address info from a loyalty program of some sort?
Aug 4, 2020, 8:20 pm
#8627
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Does the EMV work on the EG Group pump?
I have 5 EG Group Quik Stops with 20 year old Gilbarco Advantage pumps in my area... no upgrades to anything; there are 3 that were newer and have 10 year old Wayne pumps and those are actually EMV ready as Kroger did the EMV hardware upgrade to those pumps before selling the stations off, but of course never turned it on.
The AVS message has been on the receipts ever since they switched to the system that does NFC/EMV inside at the locations that have the zip code prompt on which isn't all of them. Different cards have a different message for that but all the same weird language about address not match, etc. At the locations that do not have zip code prompt turned on, there is an odd "U" in the reference number. Sometimes at the locations that do not have a zip code prompt the AVS line prints and says "AVS: U (Unavailable)."
I have 5 EG Group Quik Stops with 20 year old Gilbarco Advantage pumps in my area... no upgrades to anything; there are 3 that were newer and have 10 year old Wayne pumps and those are actually EMV ready as Kroger did the EMV hardware upgrade to those pumps before selling the stations off, but of course never turned it on.
The AVS message has been on the receipts ever since they switched to the system that does NFC/EMV inside at the locations that have the zip code prompt on which isn't all of them. Different cards have a different message for that but all the same weird language about address not match, etc. At the locations that do not have zip code prompt turned on, there is an odd "U" in the reference number. Sometimes at the locations that do not have a zip code prompt the AVS line prints and says "AVS: U (Unavailable)."
Aug 4, 2020, 10:57 pm
#8628
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
I did not test EMV as I prefer not to use my physical card at the pump and I only like to pay with contactless at the pump. I might try it next time but it doesn't look like they support it. They use NCR Radiant inside just like other Radiant gas stations so that would be why it works at the pump and plus they are unbranded. https://imgur.com/zWdq6tf Here is a picture of the pump if you want to see it.
Very generic looking pump. Odd EG Group does not have more full imaging.
Aug 5, 2020, 5:13 am
#8629
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
As mentioned, I'm hoping it was just a fluke and that most of their other employees are more on the ball. After all, other places (like In-N-Out) seem pretty consistent in handing the terminal out the window even for people not paying with their phones. Besides, the place that bothers me more is the local McDonald's that won't hand the terminal out the window at all even for Apple Pay users; hopefully they end up getting the swivel mount for their MX915 soon.
Aug 6, 2020, 4:29 am
#8630
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
https://www.theindychannel.com/news/...oming-7-eleven Well here are some changes coming soon to Speedway. We all know about Speedway being bought up by 7-Eleven and hopefully 7-Eleven leaves the POS system mostly alone. I wouldn't mind if they added pin bypass on debit cards via contactless like 7-Eleven supports which would be nice. Still 7-Eleven is missing contactless readers at most locations at the pump or on the MX915's inside. Not sure how many removed the MX915's and added the iSC250's back. Although there are a few test contactless at the pump locations with Wayne Pumps and contactless is working outside but not inside as of October 2019. The receipt says SEI: https://imgur.com/3wJmHIp It will be interesting to see what they do and hopefully they don't remove the Speedway NCR system that works so well.
I forgot to mention this but it seems that QDOBA is on the MC contactless locator now so it should be working.
Last edited by scibot; Aug 6, 2020 at 6:31 am
Aug 6, 2020, 8:51 pm
#8631
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
https://www.theindychannel.com/news/...oming-7-eleven Well here are some changes coming soon to Speedway. We all know about Speedway being bought up by 7-Eleven and hopefully 7-Eleven leaves the POS system mostly alone. I wouldn't mind if they added pin bypass on debit cards via contactless like 7-Eleven supports which would be nice. Still 7-Eleven is missing contactless readers at most locations at the pump or on the MX915's inside. Not sure how many removed the MX915's and added the iSC250's back. Although there are a few test contactless at the pump locations with Wayne Pumps and contactless is working outside but not inside as of October 2019. The receipt says SEI: https://imgur.com/3wJmHIp It will be interesting to see what they do and hopefully they don't remove the Speedway NCR system that works so well.
Aug 6, 2020, 10:09 pm
#8632
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
I am quite unhappy to see Speedway being sold to 7-Eleven.
7-Eleven is so backwards. When they took the Valero Corner Stores in CA over, they took out Valero's Verifone registers, installed Gilbarco registers to control the gas pumps only, then installed 7-Eleven cash registers for the c-store. I'm not sure why they didn't just keep the Verifone registers for gas pump use only...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:32 am
#8633
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 436
Who knows what prompted Kroger to finally activate the Contactless at QFC. Clearly someone there in their payments area is dead set against Contactless, or in their IT upper management. My guess is someone in upper management caught wind of the various competitors doing Contactless payments and finally gathered enough power to force the payments area to activate the Contactless. Maybe someone in upper management had a bad experience with Kroger Pay and the light turned on in their head and they realized how much easier the Apple Pay or Google Pay at competitors is to use vs. the Kroger Pay and that prompted this.
Aug 7, 2020, 8:57 am
#8634
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Kroger put out a press release: Kroger Launches Contactless Payments Pilot in QFC Division - The Kroger Co.
Aug 7, 2020, 9:22 am
#8635
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Aug 7, 2020, 9:34 am
#8636
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
7-Eleven will keep its current system. That is their proprietary system. It will be a move backwards for Speedway. It is possible locations would keep the Speedway system, until they formally brand as 7-Eleven. The Sunoco A Plus sites are still using the Sunoco system if they have that branding.
The Kroger Pay PR linked above seemed like they were already releasing it everywhere at the time, whereas NFC is "only" a pilot. However, it's going to be a lot harder this time to claim that there's "no" demand for the latter, so pilot status might not be a problem.
Aug 7, 2020, 11:25 am
#8637
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
I had a Google Pay fail at Mcdonalds yesterday. I went through the drive thru and I was ready to pay by phone. For some reason, NFC would not activate on my phone. I tried a couple times (locked and unlocked) and nothing. I just switched to Samsung Pay and it went through for me.
Aug 7, 2020, 11:34 am
#8638
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Tried a PIN preferring debit card (UNFCU) at Chevron with Wayne pumps today:
- Outside contactless: "Card cannot be read" error, like with the UNFCU CC.
- Outside EMV: global AID, approved without PIN (implying online PIN isn't supported). Note: I didn't push the "press for debit" button beforehand.
- Inside contactless: auto-selected global AID, approved without PIN (albeit a small purchase below whatever limit would have triggered PIN).
Aug 7, 2020, 4:56 pm
#8639
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Oh, also, I ran into a UPS Store that apparently uses iPP350s (Shift4 branding on the UI) instead of MX915s. Everything was enabled and contactless ran as EMV per the bottom of the receipt:
I only see a few area locations on the MC map, though, so perhaps I ran into a test one? I hadn't been in one for a while but I seem to remember them using MX915s with only swipe/chip enabled as recently as a year ago. This particular location even still had the mounting bracket for the MX915/925 despite not having one mounted.
I only see a few area locations on the MC map, though, so perhaps I ran into a test one? I hadn't been in one for a while but I seem to remember them using MX915s with only swipe/chip enabled as recently as a year ago. This particular location even still had the mounting bracket for the MX915/925 despite not having one mounted.
Aug 7, 2020, 6:25 pm
#8640
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Well I visited Asian Market today and they finally upgraded from Equinox L5300's to PAX PX7 multimedia lane pinpads so these https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/24...g?v=1562786326 . They probably use https://www.moleq.com/home/windows-vpos/ the Windows version or they also have an Android version: https://www.moleq.com/home/android-mg-pos/ Has anyone else seen this POS system before? Here is the receipt:
