Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 23, 2017, 10:27 am
#2416
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
The original news about Capital One contactless mentioned Quicksilver, Venture, and VentureOne. Now we can add Savor. QuicksilverOne has the new design as well but I don't know if it has contactless or not. That leaves Journey, the various Spark cards, and the generic Platinum MasterCard as not apparently having contactless.
Oct 23, 2017, 11:41 am
#2417
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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NYC is finally going to get something similar to what TfL has: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/n...-new-york.html
The most obvious difference will be what passengers do to go through a subway turnstile or board a bus: wave or tap a smartphone or a credit or debit card, instead of swipe a MetroCard.
The system will work through apps like Apple Pay, Android Pay and Samsung Pay as well as “contactless cards” — credit or debit cards with embedded chips that rely on a wireless technology known as near field communication, or N.F.C.
The system will work through apps like Apple Pay, Android Pay and Samsung Pay as well as “contactless cards” — credit or debit cards with embedded chips that rely on a wireless technology known as near field communication, or N.F.C.
Oct 23, 2017, 11:54 am
#2418
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
NYC is finally going to get something similar to what TfL has: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/n...-new-york.html
Oct 23, 2017, 12:00 pm
#2419
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You'd think so but a lot of government stuff ends up falling behind schedule with cost overruns. We'll see in any case.
Oct 23, 2017, 12:56 pm
#2420
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
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Posts: 722
Oct 23, 2017, 3:56 pm
#2422
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Actually, not quite. Although Cubic worked with TfL on the implementation of both Oyster and contactless, the actual technology, especially the backend technology for calculations and payments is owned by TfL. TfL has granted Cubic a licence for them to adapt and implement in other cities, with millions of pounds flowing back to TfL.
Oct 23, 2017, 4:10 pm
#2423
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Actually, not quite. Although Cubic worked with TfL on the implementation of both Oyster and contactless, the actual technology, especially the backend technology for calculations and payments is owned by TfL. TfL has granted Cubic a licence for them to adapt and implement in other cities, with millions of pounds flowing back to TfL.
Same can be said with Verifone Point installations without the virtual lights.
Oct 24, 2017, 8:54 am
#2424
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I can confirm that Apple Pay worked on TfL today with my Chase Sapphire Reserve card. The reader sends £0.01 as the amount to the phone/device, if anyone's interested. Not surprisingly, it wasn't authorized in real time.
I also didn't really notice any contactless readers on the Heathrow Express kiosks (Heathrow and Paddington) or the GWR kiosks at Paddington. That said, at least the former supposedly works with signature-only cards so it might not be a huge issue.
BTW I'm not sure I'd use Apple Pay again on TfL for a future trip. There's definitely a bit of lag using it--even when you pre-arm it before going through the gates--though I don't have a Oyster to compare it to.
I also didn't really notice any contactless readers on the Heathrow Express kiosks (Heathrow and Paddington) or the GWR kiosks at Paddington. That said, at least the former supposedly works with signature-only cards so it might not be a huge issue.
BTW I'm not sure I'd use Apple Pay again on TfL for a future trip. There's definitely a bit of lag using it--even when you pre-arm it before going through the gates--though I don't have a Oyster to compare it to.
Last edited by tmiw; Oct 24, 2017 at 9:05 am
Oct 24, 2017, 9:10 am
#2425
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
you use it every week or so. (I’m guessing more checks are done).
Oct 24, 2017, 9:14 am
#2426
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Oct 24, 2017, 10:19 am
#2427
Suspended
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Apple shared some stats on Apple Pay:
http://bgr.com/2017/10/23/apple-pay-...-2017-numbers/
According to Jennifer Bailey, Apple VP of Apple Pay, the service is booming. Merchants say it’s responsible for 90 percent of all mobile contactless transactions where it’s available, and it’s starting to see significant availability numbers globally.
TechCrunch has the details from a speech that Bailey gave at the Money 20/20 conference yesterday. Bailey gave a number of details about how Apple Pay is spreading around the globe and rapidly getting traction. Among other things, Apple Pay is now available in 20 (mostly big and wealthy) countries, which together make up 70 percent of the world’s card transactions. 4,000 card issuers worldwide now support Apple Pay, meaning the service is now theoretically available for a non-trivial number of consumers who control the majority of the world’s electronic retail purchases.
Equally impressive are the retailer numbers for the USA. It’s now available (meaning, standard contactless payment is available) at 50 percent of retail locations in the US, including 67 of the top 100 US retailers. In a number of cases, consumers don’t have contactless-capable cards, but can still use the contactless payment system thanks to Apple Pay.
TechCrunch has the details from a speech that Bailey gave at the Money 20/20 conference yesterday. Bailey gave a number of details about how Apple Pay is spreading around the globe and rapidly getting traction. Among other things, Apple Pay is now available in 20 (mostly big and wealthy) countries, which together make up 70 percent of the world’s card transactions. 4,000 card issuers worldwide now support Apple Pay, meaning the service is now theoretically available for a non-trivial number of consumers who control the majority of the world’s electronic retail purchases.
Equally impressive are the retailer numbers for the USA. It’s now available (meaning, standard contactless payment is available) at 50 percent of retail locations in the US, including 67 of the top 100 US retailers. In a number of cases, consumers don’t have contactless-capable cards, but can still use the contactless payment system thanks to Apple Pay.
Oct 24, 2017, 10:32 am
#2428
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I can confirm that Apple Pay worked on TfL today with my Chase Sapphire Reserve card. The reader sends £0.01 as the amount to the phone/device, if anyone's interested. Not surprisingly, it wasn't authorized in real time.
I also didn't really notice any contactless readers on the Heathrow Express kiosks (Heathrow and Paddington) or the GWR kiosks at Paddington. That said, at least the former supposedly works with signature-only cards so it might not be a huge issue.
BTW I'm not sure I'd use Apple Pay again on TfL for a future trip. There's definitely a bit of lag using it--even when you pre-arm it before going through the gates--though I don't have a Oyster to compare it to.
I also didn't really notice any contactless readers on the Heathrow Express kiosks (Heathrow and Paddington) or the GWR kiosks at Paddington. That said, at least the former supposedly works with signature-only cards so it might not be a huge issue.
BTW I'm not sure I'd use Apple Pay again on TfL for a future trip. There's definitely a bit of lag using it--even when you pre-arm it before going through the gates--though I don't have a Oyster to compare it to.
The newest Cubic readers solve my largest gripe, it has the correct contactless lights! Because all of these cities have contracts with Cubic to be on a replacement cycle, we should see the new Chicago style readers hit other cities soon! New SF ClipperCard readers are the new style as well! And Sydney got a few as well as they get replaced.
The Cubic card readers to be more interesting are just custom built VERIFONE READERS!! this is how they’re EMV certified, and I saw an LA tap reader they were working on, full on Verifone logo on the back!
Oct 24, 2017, 11:50 am
#2429
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Meanwhile, no issues with it thus far in the UK. Granted, I haven't attempted to spend more than £30 with it yet. It'll be interesting to see how often I'll have to use my Diners Club card (I'm not sure I'm going to bother with chip and signature at all if contactless isn't enabled somewhere for whatever reason and it isn't something like a hotel).
Oct 24, 2017, 12:14 pm
#2430
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Well that was fast, here are the new combination QR Code NFC reader, on the MTA you can see the contactless symbol also on the scanner. Nice color LED and LCD display too.
Though this does NOT look like something Cubic made, at least so far.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/23/...fare-metrocard
Here’s an article, readers still made by Cubic. Looks pretty good.
Last edited by RedLight2015; Oct 24, 2017 at 12:23 pm