I've never seen this discussed here but I'm sure some of you have experienced trying to explain the benefits of using credit cards for getting miles and points.

It is extremely frustrating how people won't even hear you out before they start to chime in and talk about how bad credit cards are. Some of the common reactions are:

* yeah, what's your interest rate? They must be making a fortune off you.

* I'd never pay an annual fee on a credit card.

* I'll just use my debit card or pay cash. If you don't have the money you shouldn't be buying things.

I've tried to explain how the balance is paid in full and therefore no interest charges. I've also told them how I earned the companion pass and have buy one get one free tickets for nearly two years. Some people I know are stupid enough to buy extended warranties and I've told them using a credit card extends warranties for free. Other people are concerned about using how using a credit card everywhere increases the risk of fraud but yet they have no problem swiping their debit card to get a pack of gum. Most of the time people look at me like I'm crazy or full of it.

I usually don't waste my time trying anymore. It's not worth it.

What's your experience?

There are a lot of posts on FT on this subject matter and the general consensus is that most people don't care enough to make the effort needed. You're talking "to the hand" 95% of the time. I've been talking to peopel about this "hobby" since 2002 & I don't even try anymore.

I think most of this comes as a result of the following:

1. A large percentage of the population generally does not trust banks. A lot of people don't even understand that a merchant pays a % of every transaction they swipe, so they don't get where the money would come from. Their instincts tell them that the bank has to be profiting off of you somewhere and you just don't realize you're getting hosed. I don't even bring up miles and points, or banks in general to these people usually. It is a waste of time.

2. Many people don't think 1-2% or even 3% is more than some pocket change. They don't really care to think about finances more than they have to and figure this is just a waste of time.

3. If you mention manufactured spend (something I have only done a few times when some really really good deals came around), most people get uncomfortable and just shut down/stop listening, which I completely understand.

4. A lot of people don't understand and/or fear damaging their credit scores for those who are promoting churning credit cards. This is understandable. There isn't a published formula on the websites of the big 3 reporting agencies that says "if you apply for this credit card, your score will go up or down x points". A lot of people don't want to "gamble" with that.

I'm fortunate that I have a lot of business spend that allows me to accumulate a ton of points. People usually get interested in what I have going on because I will say things to the effect of "Bank of America paid for my hotel and airfare" or "I opted to rent the Mercedes since I wasn't paying for it anyway". I usually have the person chomping at the bit for more information when I explain it that way.

Best of luck to you. I've managed to get a few friends to pick up a great rewards card and put monthly expenses on it (think phone bills, insurance, etc). Hopefully before you tell anyone about these things, you tell them the same thing I do before I even start: You must always pay off the card in full every month, no matter what. I usually repeat this a few times to emphasize how important it is.

As with anything in life, ignorance is the greatest generator of fear. 80% of Americans have no business with a credit card under any circumstances. Out of the other 20% that do, well over half are so risk averse that something non threatening paralyzes them at least once a day, and financial institutions are at the top of that "fear factor."

Out of the top of the 20% who are responsible, a few bucks a year and free flights isn't worth their time. We are talking about a small niche of people who are responsible AND the hobby is worthwhile. Sign up bonuses for business travelers is a good way to get started.

I'd say this: "Most banks are betting that people carry balances on their card. Most people lose this bet. The banks do indeed make a fortune off these people, so most people shouldn't even play the credit card game. But for the disciplined few, the banks lose their bet and that's why the gamers like to play the game."

This week, the general populace may have become a little bit smarter about this given the 9-12-16 New York Times article on this topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/bu...fees.html?_r=0

(alternate link to same article: http://nyti.ms/2cEmDHc)

Note the "5/24" rule mentioned in the accompanying NYT article:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...d-rewards.html

(alternate link to same article: http://nyti.ms/2c6tFGQ)

Reading the COMMENTS responding to the article will disabuse you of this notion. Early responders were negative about all card payments, all annual fees, and the higher merchant fees and interest rates associated with rewards cards. For many people a credit card is a way to borrow money, not a convenience, and not a rewarding experience.

They're not stupid. They're just not into it.

It's very hard to "convert friends" to whatever hobbies you enjoy no matter what they are.

Indeed. My other hobbies include doing outdoor (mostly "landscape") photography, with myself never in the picture, using a film 35mm SLR camera, and recording and collecting unscoped (meaning without the commercials edited out) airchecks of music-formatted radio stations.

Those get at least as big blank stares as trying to explain how I collect miles/points.

In the first case, while some people may appreciate photography for art's sake as opposed to selfie's sake, they don't have enough imagination to picture themselves doing that kind of photography. In the second case, aircheck collecting is a super rare hobby (especially for people who never worked in radio), and most people don't get it at all. (They may understand the interest one might have in collecting old-time radio dramas perhaps, but they cannot understand the interest one might have of collecting airchecks of music radio stations with the commercials intact.)

By comparison, many people at least appreciate and understand that I collected miles/points in various ways and used them for all sorts of vacations I might not have been able to afford otherwise, but they're generally not interested in doing "all that work" themselves. (And it is a lot of work to learn how to do it correctly. If you do baby steps, you can spread the learning out over a long time so it's not so much at once, but to get from nowhere to where you or I are quickly, it's a lot you would have to learn quickly.)

Meanwhile, they try convert me to fishing and I don't get that.

You're exactly right. The people who posted on this article are more typical of the people you encounter in everyday life. These are the people who live paycheck to paycheck and believe if you're using a credit card you must be in debt. It's all they know and can't imagine there's a different way.

The people on flyer talk are a different breed. Definitely more knowledgeable about credit cards and how to leverage them to get the most.

I've never tried to convert anybody. On the other hand, many people have asked how I can afford to travel as often as I do. Only when I try to explain do I get the "talk to the hand" attitude.

I have my suspicions that many of these people couldn't do this if they wanted to. They would never come right out and say that of course. Instead they just try to act like it's not a worthwhile endeavor. I would guess a lot of these people wouldn't get approved for these high end cards and they know it.

Yeah there is some work involved but if you start out with "baby steps" it can actually simplify your life. I'm not talking about paying annual fees or manufactured spending. Just getting something like a Freedom card with no annual fee and setting it up to auto pay your cell phone, cable and internet. Instead of remembering different due dates and writing checks and wasting stamps you can have just one bill to pay.

I think this is a good way to start. If you put all of your everyday expenses on one card, many people can earn enough for 1-2 flights/year just by doing this (plus, as you say, simplify your finances). When people realize this, the lightbulb goes off. @:-)You can't take someone who has never joined a FF program or used a credit card and expect them to understand churning and MS. It sounds too murky. But once they get a taste of it, they'll want to learn more.

However, as others have said, this is not a game for everyone. Many people (even those with good incomes) have poor credit ratings or were raised to avoid credit at all costs or look down on points programs like coupon clipping. Those people can't be convinced. Plus, why would you want to convince people to try this (unless you are looking for a CC referral bonus)? The more people who get involved, the more the CC companies will clamp down. I'll mention that my recent flights were free, and people can ask if they want to find out more.

I'm not quite sure I would tell someone starting out to out to put all their everyday expenses on a card. I think a lot of people wouldn't think of this as money already spent. I think many would see their bank account getting larger because of lack of cash spending and it would give them a false sense of security and they might be tempted to bite more than they can chew. Just a few regular bills even if it's only 2-3 hundred a month. Then as you become more comfortable maybe all your gas, then groceries....

True - it depends on how disciplined people are and their individual financial situation, which is why I enjoy this hobby myself but don't try to sell it to others. At this point, I put everything possible on a card (from groceries to utilities to a cup of coffee). When I get paid, it all goes on the CC bill. I seldom keep more than a couple hundred $ in my bank account, because I never use cash or debit.