Beginning of the End for the Miles Game?
 

As you may already know, American Express recently imposed a strict new rule on credit card applicants: you can now only get approved for the same Amex credit card once in your entire lifetime.
Previously, identical Amex products could be churned once every 12 months, allowing one to accumulate a boatload of Delta miles and/or Membership Rewards points.

Predictably, Chase followed suit a few months later with their own rule. Now, certain Chase cards* will not be approved if you have opened 5 or more credit card accounts within the past 24 months (with any bank).
I am now anxiously waiting to hear what Citibank has in store for us.

This is obviously a game changer for those of us who have made a hobby out of collecting miles and points.

Thoughts?



P.S.: Sorry if this topic was covered in another post, but, surprisingly, I have not been able to find this discussed anywhere on FlyerTalk


*Chase Freedom, Chase Ink Cash, Chase Ink Plus, Chase Sapphire Preferred, Chase Slate

Chase used to have the same rule regarding bonii. Times change, and there will always be ways to abuse any program.

I would love to hear how to get around these new, draconian rules.

I'm sure you would. I cannot comment further without violating the FT ToS.

Only for personal cards:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...etime-usa.html (in the Amex forum)
And something very close to that is still possible with Amex business cards. I just got a targeted offer for 75k MR points on the Business Gold Rewards card, and no sooner had finished the minimum spend on that, when I was able to apply (and get approved) for the business Delta Gold card for the limited time (through 6/30) 50k bonus. That's despite having had the personal Gold and personal Delta before. And unlike at Chase, applying for business cards at Amex without actually having a business is easy.

Citi came from a more linient place that either Chase or Amex was ever before (it used to allow 2 cards of the same type to be applied for on the same day, it used to not care about closing of its cards, etc). Now card after card (except where for now you can find a "zombie link") are moving to "no bonus if you either opened or closed the same card in the last 18 months".

Oh, and Citi used to not give you the card if it was not going to give you the bonus, and now it gives you the card anyway (even if it might not give you the bonus), and you have to figure out whether you're going to get the bonus or not.

So I don't necessarily expect any more shoes to drop at Citi soon, given that Citi was actually first to do this tightening on churning, it's just that they did differently (and from a different starting point) than Amex and Chase later did.

Meanwhile, you have to keep in mind tthat this gone back and forth in history a few times. Some number of years ago, before Amex allowed you to get the same bonus after a year or two, Amex used to never give you the bonus if you had it before unless the new bonus was bigger and then they would give you only the difference between the old bonus and the new bonus for the new card. So Amex tightened, then loosened, then tightened again.

And Chase may have gone through cycles too, I'm less familiar with Chase churning rules over the years so I can't be as specific there.

And btw CIti has gone through cycles too. They used to allow "fast" churning of AA cards, then stopped it, then a few years ago started it again, then stopped it again.

Btw, BofA has tightened too, but again from a different starting point. Up until a few months ago, it was possible for some people to apply for 3, 4, 5, or 6 Alaska Airlines cards at the same time. Then some stupid bloggers started talking about it, BofA noticed, and now it's only one personal AS card every 3 months. Relative to every other bank, that may seem like free-wheeling churning, but relative to a few months ago, it's a big tightening.

Anyway, Chase is the only one (other than longtimers like Barclay, of course) that is counting other banks' cards against the new card you're trying to get. Amex is only locking you out of personal cards you had before, not locking you out of ones you didn't have. Citi is making you wait 18 months to repeat the same card, but no wait is needed for a card you didn't have before. BofA is (horrors!) making you wait 3 months to repeat the same card.

In short there is always new targets.

Not true for the business accounts, it would seem. I was just approved for an Ink Plus with 20+ new accounts in the past 24 months. Without having to talk to a soul at Chase to plead my case, I might add. Used my own name and SSN on the Ink app.

I thought you could only be awarded a bonus for the same card once in your lifetime. That's completely different from what you said. This is the first I've heard of this policy.

OK, I may have been wrong, but it has the same detrimental effect for the purpose of accumulating miles and points.

So, do you think the pendulum will once again swing the other way? I haven't been at this game for very long, but I don't think the rules have ever been this restrictive. I fear that a paradigm shift has occurred, caused by too many people (like myself) entering the game and affecting these banks' bottom line.

Lol I was about to freak out lol. I was like but there are some cards that I want to cancel! What if I want them in the future but get denied ahaha... the TS just stated it wrong lolol.

Actually a miles blogger (may have been Noob Traveler, but don't remember exactly) did mention that if you want, for example, the Chase Sapphire Preferred card, and you're new to the miles game, get it in the beginning because you won't be able to get it later on (when you will always have more than 5 open accounts). So, if this is correct, my first statement may not have been wrong after all.
Regardless, these new rules are a devastating blow to all of us who collect miles and points, no matter how you slice it.

There must be some kind of exception to this because I was recently approved for a Chase Sapphire Preferred despite nine other new accounts opened in the past year. It might be that I only had one other Chase account, but maybe it was some other reason. But as of three weeks ago it was not totally impossible.

Overly dramatic thread.

It wasn't my intention at all to be, as you say, "dramatic". In fact, I wish I didn't have to start this thread to begin with. I'm quite distressed by these new credit card rules, which will surely put a damper on my burgeoning hobby. I'm not quite sure why you don't feel the same way I do.

Abuse is a crass term and so inappropriate when it comes to MS! Money laundering, illegally foreclosing on homes, gaming LIBOR rates - these are examples of program abuse. Customers who legally MS simply represent the moral hazard that misbehaving banks invited upon themselves. :p

Afterall, "Moral hazard is a situation in which one party gets involved in a risky event knowing that it is protected against the risk and the other party will incur the cost."