Foreign exchange rates discussion [FOREX]--all cards
Dec 13, 2015, 1:07 am
#136
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I thought extra fees like the MC ones above were supposed to be separate line items on statements now. I seem to recall a massive lawsuit that was settled by agreeing to such, anyway.
Dec 13, 2015, 6:38 am
#137
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 238
I'll second the awesome thread comment, very useful information.
FWIW, Charles Schwab offers an ATM/debit card with no foreign exchange fees and no ATM fees anywhere in the world (though it is a VISA card). The underlying checking account has no minimum balance or monthly fees. You have to open a brokerage account at the same time although you don't have to fund it. Applying incurs a hard pull.
After reading this thread the VISA card aspect makes it somewhat less desirable but I think it is still better than any other cash getting card that I have. I'll be in Chile next week and I'll compare exchange rates with a USAA MC debit card.
FWIW, Charles Schwab offers an ATM/debit card with no foreign exchange fees and no ATM fees anywhere in the world (though it is a VISA card). The underlying checking account has no minimum balance or monthly fees. You have to open a brokerage account at the same time although you don't have to fund it. Applying incurs a hard pull.
After reading this thread the VISA card aspect makes it somewhat less desirable but I think it is still better than any other cash getting card that I have. I'll be in Chile next week and I'll compare exchange rates with a USAA MC debit card.
Probably will lead to a double pull. But don't care since my valuable CRs are from Experian followed by Transunion. I also don't plan to apply for any new credit so all my inquiries will most likely drop in the next 2 years.
Dec 17, 2015, 8:44 am
#138
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Chicago
Posts: 244
I just started using the Revolut (prepaid) MasterCard for foreign currency transactions. I purchased Swedish rail tickets yesterday online. 909 SEK and it hit my card at $106.76 - which was dead on for xe.com and google conversion rates yesterday (would've cost me slightly less today). I pull the cash from my bank account in $s and pay in local currency.
Dec 17, 2015, 1:29 pm
#139
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF
Programs: UA, VX, QF, EY, VA
Posts: 756
I'm reporting what I've read from other threads. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...ose-1-fee.html
According to those comments, the A+ does charge a FTF. Barclay doesn't charge it, but MasterCard does (and this enables Barclay to claim it as a no FTF card). This is usually offset by the lower exchange rate that MasterCard offers.
However, that doesn't mean that it will always be offset by the exchange rate, and it does mean that there is still a FTF in principle, even if not in effect.
Again, I'm not commenting on my own experience regarding the Arrival+. I'm only reporting what others have said.
Edit: I do see that you, patrick.barnes did comment in that thread. However, there are people who directly responded to your statements with counterclaims. Again, I don't have personal experience with the Arrival+ and am only reporting.
According to those comments, the A+ does charge a FTF. Barclay doesn't charge it, but MasterCard does (and this enables Barclay to claim it as a no FTF card). This is usually offset by the lower exchange rate that MasterCard offers.
However, that doesn't mean that it will always be offset by the exchange rate, and it does mean that there is still a FTF in principle, even if not in effect.
Again, I'm not commenting on my own experience regarding the Arrival+. I'm only reporting what others have said.
Edit: I do see that you, patrick.barnes did comment in that thread. However, there are people who directly responded to your statements with counterclaims. Again, I don't have personal experience with the Arrival+ and am only reporting.
No one can get a 100% accurate FX spot rate since that rate changes every microsecond. I'm just saying that over thousands of transactions, the MC FX rate is as close to interbank rates as possible, and that neither the A+ or Citi MC cards marketed as 0% FTF include any additional mark up over the advertised MC rates.
Meanwhile, rates on Visa cards claiming 0% FTF *do* include a hidden markup of up to 1%. I've run the same transactions in the same currencies on 4 different cards at exactly the same time to confirm all of the above. My A+ and Citi Prestige gave me identical rates, and my Chase CSP and CU issued Visa gave identical (craptacular) rates.
Amex just gives you a rate they determine which has no basis in reality apart from being "close enough". It tends to be on par with the Visa rate or slightly better.
I doubt any of this stuff matters to most people, but for those that spend a lot of money internationally... Seems worth it to save ~1% on each transaction by using a MC.
Dec 17, 2015, 5:36 pm
#140
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,112
Those people are quoting clueless front line CSR and are not actually basing their posts on actual transaction data.
No one can get a 100% accurate FX spot rate since that rate changes every microsecond. I'm just saying that over thousands of transactions, the MC FX rate is as close to interbank rates as possible, and that neither the A+ or Citi MC cards marketed as 0% FTF include any additional mark up over the advertised MC rates.
Meanwhile, rates on Visa cards claiming 0% FTF *do* include a hidden markup of up to 1%. I've run the same transactions in the same currencies on 4 different cards at exactly the same time to confirm all of the above. My A+ and Citi Prestige gave me identical rates, and my Chase CSP and CU issued Visa gave identical (craptacular) rates.
Amex just gives you a rate they determine which has no basis in reality apart from being "close enough". It tends to be on par with the Visa rate or slightly better.
I doubt any of this stuff matters to most people, but for those that spend a lot of money internationally... Seems worth it to save ~1% on each transaction by using a MC.
No one can get a 100% accurate FX spot rate since that rate changes every microsecond. I'm just saying that over thousands of transactions, the MC FX rate is as close to interbank rates as possible, and that neither the A+ or Citi MC cards marketed as 0% FTF include any additional mark up over the advertised MC rates.
Meanwhile, rates on Visa cards claiming 0% FTF *do* include a hidden markup of up to 1%. I've run the same transactions in the same currencies on 4 different cards at exactly the same time to confirm all of the above. My A+ and Citi Prestige gave me identical rates, and my Chase CSP and CU issued Visa gave identical (craptacular) rates.
Amex just gives you a rate they determine which has no basis in reality apart from being "close enough". It tends to be on par with the Visa rate or slightly better.
I doubt any of this stuff matters to most people, but for those that spend a lot of money internationally... Seems worth it to save ~1% on each transaction by using a MC.
This person, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25055865-post31.html, reports that the Barclay Arrival+ consistently was higher than a Capital One Visa card.
Just because your experience says one thing doesn't mean that it can be generalized to everyone else. It's possible other people experienced differences with the same card, and the reports are that this has happened.
Dec 18, 2015, 12:17 am
#141
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1
Visa ups their spread?
I have a Canadian dollar, no FTF Visa credit card issued by Chase Canada (it's an Amazon.ca branded card). I've been paying with it while living in Australia half time. The forex cost of using it for expenses here has compared favourably with any method for bringing lump sums from Canada, even without considering the 1% dividend Chase pays on all purchases.
I have routinely monitored the actual exchange rate charged on each Australian dollar transaction and it has always been equal, or very close, to the daily rates published here by Visa Inc. I think any differences are due to wide swings in the rate within a day.
What has struck me recently is that the spread between Visa's rates and those reported by OANDA or XE suddenly widened on Dec 5 2015. For the 2.5 years I've been using the card, the spread has always been about half a percentage point. Suddenly it has jumped to about 1.25 percentage points for my last 26 transactions. I've sent a note asking Visa about it.
In the meantime I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the relationship between Visa's rates and the interbank rates, for this or any other currency pairs?
I have routinely monitored the actual exchange rate charged on each Australian dollar transaction and it has always been equal, or very close, to the daily rates published here by Visa Inc. I think any differences are due to wide swings in the rate within a day.
What has struck me recently is that the spread between Visa's rates and those reported by OANDA or XE suddenly widened on Dec 5 2015. For the 2.5 years I've been using the card, the spread has always been about half a percentage point. Suddenly it has jumped to about 1.25 percentage points for my last 26 transactions. I've sent a note asking Visa about it.
In the meantime I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the relationship between Visa's rates and the interbank rates, for this or any other currency pairs?
Dec 18, 2015, 9:01 pm
#142
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Just would like to share my data points in China.
I happened to have three pretty large transactions in Beijing over a less-than-24-hour-span. Here are the numbers:
1) Ritz Carlton from Chase (Visa): CNY 20636 to USD 3193.69, 6.46149
2) SPG Business from Amex (Amex): CNY 619.90 to USD 95.97, 6.45931
3) IHG from Chase (MC): CNY 17119.13 to USD 2644.98, 6.47231
The first happens at 2pm, second at 8pm, third at 10am the next day.
If we leave how different networks calculate rates aside, and just compare how transactions in a short timespan are converted into USD, we can see at least in China, Visa doesn't have the big disadvantage it has in other countries. Maybe because CNY is a controlled currency?
The MC transaction might be a little irrelevant, as CNY is going down every second these days...
I happened to have three pretty large transactions in Beijing over a less-than-24-hour-span. Here are the numbers:
1) Ritz Carlton from Chase (Visa): CNY 20636 to USD 3193.69, 6.46149
2) SPG Business from Amex (Amex): CNY 619.90 to USD 95.97, 6.45931
3) IHG from Chase (MC): CNY 17119.13 to USD 2644.98, 6.47231
The first happens at 2pm, second at 8pm, third at 10am the next day.
If we leave how different networks calculate rates aside, and just compare how transactions in a short timespan are converted into USD, we can see at least in China, Visa doesn't have the big disadvantage it has in other countries. Maybe because CNY is a controlled currency?
The MC transaction might be a little irrelevant, as CNY is going down every second these days...
Dec 19, 2015, 8:22 pm
#144
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 74
Test today:
38,000 COP @ midmarket exchange rate of 3328.50.
Chase Sapphire Preferred: 11.40
Discover IT: 11.34
So for all the Discover bashing going on, I thought this was an interesting point. I made the same purchase yesterday on Discover and got the exact same exchange rate, so I'm not sure what day or formula they use.
All that being said, I've found that here in Colombia at least, Discover IT is accepted everywhere that Visa is, and the exchange rate seems to be the same or better.
Cheers
38,000 COP @ midmarket exchange rate of 3328.50.
Chase Sapphire Preferred: 11.40
Discover IT: 11.34
So for all the Discover bashing going on, I thought this was an interesting point. I made the same purchase yesterday on Discover and got the exact same exchange rate, so I'm not sure what day or formula they use.
All that being said, I've found that here in Colombia at least, Discover IT is accepted everywhere that Visa is, and the exchange rate seems to be the same or better.
Cheers
Jan 3, 2016, 7:57 pm
#146
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now
Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,429
Jan 5, 2016, 6:40 pm
#148
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
I did two identical charges on SGD in-store within a space of seconds (same card machine) with Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa and Barclays AA MC.
Chase Visa gave a rate of 1.41137 SGD/USD
Barclay MC gave a rate of 1.4200 SGD/USD
Chase rate is worse off by USD4.42 per SGD1000. This transaction was on 1/1. I don't know if that day being a public holiday made the difference worse since Visa had to pre-set the rate before the holiday.
Chase Visa gave a rate of 1.41137 SGD/USD
Barclay MC gave a rate of 1.4200 SGD/USD
Chase rate is worse off by USD4.42 per SGD1000. This transaction was on 1/1. I don't know if that day being a public holiday made the difference worse since Visa had to pre-set the rate before the holiday.
Jan 24, 2016, 8:31 am
#150
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: TK E+
Posts: 398
0.5% higher foreign exchange rate with Chase vs Cap one
I just made 2 identical charges in some foreign currency, a few seconds apart. I used a Chase card for the first charge and a Cap one quicksilver for the second.
The dollar amount with the Chase card was about 0.5% higher than the Capone!
I thought that these credit card companies are using mid market wholesale rates or something like that, and never imagined such a huge difference could be possible.
Anybody has some insight on how this works? Is it perhaps that one bank has a longer lag in updating their conversion rates and therefore would sometimes be higher and sometimes lower than banks with a shorter lag? If not, which credit card companies generally use the conversion rates which are best for the consumers?
The dollar amount with the Chase card was about 0.5% higher than the Capone!
I thought that these credit card companies are using mid market wholesale rates or something like that, and never imagined such a huge difference could be possible.
Anybody has some insight on how this works? Is it perhaps that one bank has a longer lag in updating their conversion rates and therefore would sometimes be higher and sometimes lower than banks with a shorter lag? If not, which credit card companies generally use the conversion rates which are best for the consumers?