Greyhound Cafe DCC dispute reason 76
 

I wanted to give an update to this case. I received a letter from Chase saying that my case has been resolved and closed, all credits Chase issued will remain permanently on the account. They did not give a reason as to what Grayhound did or did not do.

So essentially my fight with DCC was successful. However of course I wasn't doing it to get a free meal, but rather to stop this forced DCC behavior from merchants. I have eaten at the same restaurant 3 times since I lodged the complaint, but paid with a local HKD card.

I will say that going through this process was not a cake walk, as Chase doesn't really want to deal with a charge back, and the reps do not really understand the principle behind it. I was lucky to have one that completely sided with the average customer.

This isn't related to Uniqlo, it's the same thing for every merchant I used my Discover card at in Japan (that showed a Discover sign, because I have no faith that JCB-only logo merchants actually accept Discover because in practice, they don't).

And the rates I ended up getting from Discover/JCB are way better than what I got from Visa for the same days.

I would say that's a satisfactory resolution. I know you weren't trying to get a free meal out of the situation, and I wonder what happened on the backend. Usually with a reason code 76 chargeback it wouldn't reverse the charge completely but rather rerun the transaction in the local currency.

It is frustrating with Chase that most of the reps don't know about DCC nor do they care. Thanks again for jumping through the hoops to fight this transaction.

OK, got another update. My statements online have been posted and as of now, this is what it looks like:

A charge for the HKD amount was indeed processed. However another return for the USD amount was issued. That means, I have two credits of 83.76 and and a new charge of 80.36. So it looks something like this:

DEC -83.76 - A credit after the rerun.
DEC 80.36 - rerun in merchant currency
OCT -83.76 - Upon filing of reason code 76
OCT -4.00 - rep tried to close out the dispute with the difference
SEP 83.76 - Original forced DCC charge

I'm guessing the December credit will fall off and is some weird holder of some sort.

I imagine things will reconcile eventually, but it looks like the reason code 76 chargeback happened properly. It doesn't matter for HKG:USD, but which exchange rate does the bank use in such a case? Would they use the December exchange rate or would they use the exchange rate for the date of the original transaction?

The 80.36 was the original USD equivalent on the original transaction receipt for HKD. Did that make sense? :)

Sure, but the USD:HKG rate is fixed. If you get unwillingly hit with DCC at let's say a merchant in Madrid and the reason code 76 chargeback gets resolved 3 months later would they use the USD:EUR exchange rate when the chargeback posts or would they use the exchange rate from the original date of the transaction?

Its pegged to within a certain range, but take it from me that it can fluctuate a little. I use my US based CSP here every day and the rate changes every day in small increments. Can add up to a few cents either way based on the rate.

Two days in HK, and I think DCC is kind of omnipresent here.

However, they are all very clear and easy to opt out (the ones I've encountered). Usually, the cashiers (today at 翠华 in 铜锣湾 and yesterday at Hong Kong Station MTR) would opt out for me, and I actually receive two slips at once, with one showing confirmed HKD amount. Just now at Tom Lee Causeway Bay, they asked for my currency preference after seeing the choices on the terminal. Hitting "cancel" means HKD.

My guess would be that rogue DCC terminals are always in Bars here in HK? Regular shops and restaurants seem fine.

One negative thing is that with US cards that don't have PINs, the terminals will be in the cashiers' hands when DCC appears, so some inexperienced cashiers might bring problems.

I bet with ubiquitous signing pads like the ones in the US, or PIN pads like the ones in Europe/Australia/NZ, the choices would appear right in front of the customers, which reduces the chance of wrong input.

Yeah, the MTR station almost caught me off guard. The lady at HKIA already had my card in hand when I saw the Citibank "Pay in your own currency!" sign. I quickly had to relay, "HKD, please!" I would say - and the resident expert percysmith can chime in here - that the likely DCC trap is when you have a carbon copy signature receipt. In that scenario it depends if the cashier inputs anything to denote the currency selection.

For example, they certainly didn't do anything at Greyhound Cafe. You could tick the HKD box, but that request would go off into a black hole. Pressing cancel during the transaction didn't do anything. Likewise, I almost lost it at a restaurant at Disneyland when the cashier said, "Check HKD, and it's HKD."

I would say that most places in HK respect DCC choices, but you can run into problems at restaurants and bars.

I spend quite bit of time in Mexico City these days, and on my most recent trip I began noticing signs from Santander at different shops and restaurants that read, basically, "Now, for your convenience you can pay in your own currency!"

While I don't think I ever experienced DCC paying with my Canadian chip-&-PIN card (at least, I was never actually given a choice by the POS) it seems that DCC has come to Mexico City.

I might be going to Puerto Vallarta in a couple of months, so if it's happening somewhere like Mexico City it's definitely going to be happening big time in a tourist resort area. :(

On a side note, looks like HK is more crowded compared with 10 years before. More people are running the red lights on to the coming cars, like Mainlanders...

Gives you the feeling that people here are madder...

Had a little DCCish incident at Al Molo Italian Restaurant at Harbour City today.

Before, the DCC in HK I've met are either that you are asked for currency selection before the first slip is printed (Tom Lee), or once the first slip is printed you are asked right away automatically on the terminal (lots of places like Tsui Hwa and MTR).

At Al Molo, since it's a HK$2000 bill and it's a upscale restaurant, I paid very close attention on the terminal. After information transmission (showing TX and RX on the screen), everything ceased on the terminal, and the currency selection slip is printed.

I don't have a service that I can simply upload photos, so I'll copy the text on the slip here:

Trans: Sale
Batch No: XXXXXX Ref: XXXXXX
RRN: XXXXXXXXX
AID: XXXXXXXXX
APP Code: XXXXXXXXX

FX Rate*: USD/HKD 0.1343638
Mark[x] Transation Currency
[ ] HKD 2095.00 [ ] USD 281.49

This service is offered by merchant's service provider. I have a choice of currencies including HKD. *Incl. four pt. two percent over wholesale rate.

I protested to the staff, but the staff said once I tick the box, I'll get HKD. I didn't believe him, and another staff came and keyed the transaction info into the terminal. After some keying, the terminal printed out the currency confirmation slip, showing "HKD 2095" only, and "Trans: Offline-Opt/Out".

The pending amount is identical to the DCC amount in USD.

This incident reminds me the Greyhound Cafe thing (interestingly, there is a Greyhound, not the IFC one, Cafe right in front of the Al Molo). The matter is someone has to perform a new task on the terminal, and key in the transaction details, just to be able to get back to the transaction and select the currency. I guess if the cashier forgets to do that, or doesn't know how to perform the "opt/out", the cardholder would be in trouble.

My question is: is Greyhound Cafe's terminal like this, that a new "opt/out" task has to be performed? What I saw today really resembles what you guys have described regarding Greyhound Cafe's terminal, that after swiping, nothing about DCC happens, but DCC's already happened.

I think the experience at Al Moto is like my experience at Disneyland or Francfranc, and I would say Disneyland is a closer experience between the two. Disneyland initially hit me with the carbon copy paper slip, which makes me nervous, whereas Francfranc uses the thermal slip. I don't know what it is, but it seems like thermal slip systems tend have additional options to input the correct currency. I feel with carbon copy selections that more than half of the time the selection gets tossed into a black hole.

At Greyhound Cafe - we were at the Cityplaza location in Tai Koo - there was no currency input during/after the transaction. Even with direct access to the terminal, the situation was similar and DCC was unavoidable at Coyote Bar and Grill.

It has been my experience that the DCC amount gets held in the pending transaction, but once the transaction posts the non-DCC amount will show. The only way this doesn't happen is if you can preempt DCC or disable it before running the transaction. DFS at HKIA does this. Even though there's the DCC offer, if you opt out - easy to do on the screen and no pressure - then the non-DCC amount will show as pending. At the Courtyard on Hong Kong Island the carbon copy slip doesn't even show a DCC option, so they turn it off before you see anything. (They use Bank of China HK terminals.)