Discover It has no FTF. My question is when you're using Discover/JCB/UnionPay under the interoperability agreements then the network that takes the payment is the one doing the exchange? For instance, JCB would do the exchange if buying at Uniqlo in Japan and present to Discover in USD? And buying at McDonald's in the US using a UnionPay would have Discover converting from USD to HKD/RMB/MOP?

When loading my Bluebird off my UnionPay BEA debit card there's definitely a gap between the mid rate and the rate charged. Previously I'd assumed it was BEA taking that ~0.5% off the top but someone here said it was actually UnionPay. I checked the UnionPay site to find that it was indeed the rate they were charging, so at least when using a UnionPay card in the US it's UnionPay doing the currency exchange. (is that the correct assumption to make given what I've seen?) If I still had my UnionPay/JCB credit card I'd try that out too, but it was too much of a pain to use in the US.

Guys, how is it going with PayWave/the technology you just have to wave the card at the reader (or whatever they call it for MC/Visa) in your countries?

I've experienced PayWave a few times in SIN now (with a foreign card, despite them telling me that it only works for local cards :rolleyes: ) and given SIN, I was never DCC'ed, but I assume that it should be the same everywhere that PayWave is used, as DCC obviously isn't compatible with PayWave (unless the criminals banksters find a way somehow, I guess..) so it should be save that way? Also never seen a foreigner (using a non CHF card) that used PayWave at the airport getting scammed so far.

If one buys stuff for 300€, it's quite easy to fight over the scam (as it's worth 20€ or so) - but if it's 10€, sometimes even myself will find it troublesome to fight over the principle. So if PayWave is DCC free, this would be a great thing as I expect the technology to be used at 90%+ of the terminals rather soon? Obviously MC/Visa are pushing it, because it gets them even the small transactions, that most people used cash to pay.

Yes, UnionPay does the conversion when you use UnionPay debit cards in the US. That's why I said UnionPay is like a RMB-based multi-currency system.

DCC is generally not allowed via contactless (except in the US and some older Canadian terminals that use magstripe based contactless

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan...n.pdf#page=504

"Visa Easy Payment Service (VEPS) Transaction Restrictions

The following Transactions which require a Transaction Receipt must not be processed as a Visa Easy Payment Service Transactions:

..
- A Transaction where Dynamic Currency Conversion is performed."

VEPS includes Paywave - see http://usa.visa.com/merchants/grow-y...ervice/faq.jsp

So, let's go 100% contactless then :D

How is contactless rolled out in your area? In SIN, it's very popular, with (I would say) 80%+ of the stores where you pay at checkout using it (obviously, dine-in restaurants where they bring the bill to your table etc. don't) - both supermarkets and (fast) food restaurants.

In Switzerland, both big supermarkt chains (Migros, Coop) have moved to contactless terminals in the last year, as well as the nationwide Kiosk chain that is controlling like 95%+ of the market. Fast food outlets have moved to it as well (not visiting much those kind of outlets, so a bit limited experience)

Germany has less credit card acceptance overall, and seems to be slower at moving towards contactless.

Malaysia, I've not seen much contactless in my last visits there this year.

How about other, "DCC prone" places, like all variations of China, Thailand, UK, Ireland, Spain, how is contactless spreading there?

Also, how is the contactless acceptance with "foreign" cards going? I've seen cases in which non-local cards wouldn't work on the contactless reader, but would work fine when chipped into (with and without DCC attempt) - and not sure if MC/VISA prefer that people generally use credit cards paying contactless, or if they would prefer DCC to always be applied, but maybe some less payments going on with CC's in general due to contactless not working?

Very few cards issued in the US support contactless. The networks tried to make a big deal about it a number of years ago, but the concept never caught on. (Too many people were scared that their credit card numbers could get stolen in public.) In fact, I have had a couple of cards where the issuer initially gave me a contactless card but didn't when I received a replacement. There are a number of merchants that support contactless payments in the US, but not many. Since DCC is uncommon here anyway, it doesn't make that much of a difference for non-USD denominated cards.

Hmm I look forward to my next suite payment on contactless. Or my next Michelin-starred restaurant bill (train wreck).

VEPS has payment limits. Quite impractical. So how many slips will I need for a suite?

We've just been discussing in HK how a certain fruit computing company gets squimish on repeat card transactions on the same card during the same day.

Well, I personally think your comment, cutting a part of my post and trying to make me sound silly is a bit off, given what I've wrote in #1368 - where I exactly state that contactless is good to avoid DCC on small bills on which one wouldn't necessary wanted to fight over half a Dollar of DCC. I know exactly that usually contactless is limited to any amount around 50€ (+/-40% or so, depending on your card) - it's not intended for larger bills, where you also get to have a look at the bill without being hurried etc. (like hotel bills)

For a bill in the hundreds or thousands, where DCC could easily be a two-digit sum in €/US$, one obviously wouldn't be declared "nuts" by the bank, as compared to a DCC'ed Burger from your favorite chain, where your bank would give you back the 15 Cents or so you got DCC'ed without batting a lid, but I value my time higher than that..

Majuki, thanks for the insight on the US market. Didn't know contactless was tried there before but never really made it through. They're massively advertising it here, and as said, both readers as well as pretty much any MC/Visa that was sent out in the last 18 months or so is now supporting it.

Visa payWave and MasterCard PayPass are available at the supermarkets, convenience stores, eateries, bakeries, cinemas in Hong Kong. You can even use that to buy ferry ticket to Macau at TurboJET.

Visa payWave, MasterCard PayPass and J/Speedy are available in Taiwan but seems it is not as widely accepted as in Singapore and Hong Kong. At least no convenience stores take that in Taiwan.

I have never seen American Express ExpressPay available in Asia but my American Express Cards issued in Hong Kong display the contactless symbol.

Sorry for missing the negative point (underline added). I was really responding to the pros in the other post (the whole bit about popularity which I highlighted in bold).

In my experience I don't think the small transaction, local-heavy type merchants get priority targeting by DCC processors (e.g. Tesco, Costa). It's the tourist-heavy big ticket locations that are targeted e.g. Harrods, DFS, hotels and car rental.

Even if I encounter it in smaller merchants in more DCC-saturated cities like Sydney and Hong Kong, I'll probably cash it if my cash rate is better than the DCC rate. In those places I can well afford to cash out the scammers - they're probably doing it to encourage cash use anyway.

MC Paypass and other variants of the RFID chip payments are usually limited to 25$/€ or less. So if the charge is higher it will print a slip to sign or prompt you to insert/swipe the card.

My German M&M MC had paypass since about 2008. I noticed that when I waved my wallet on the card reader at a gas station in the US, expecting it to charge the spg Amex express pay, but it picked up the MC paypass instead :o

In Germany I have seen the 'tap and go' on many POS in the past months:

http://eftpos.co.nz/uploads/file_upl...POS-NZ-NFC.jpg

I always try to hold my paypass card near it and to the surprise of many cashiers it works like a charm.^

Is it true that contactless can lead to people scanning your card information?

I have a EE major and I do a lot of wireless hardware stuff. My understanding is that RFIC use similar technology for the link level part, but once you get the information, you need to really have the algorithm to understand the information.

Also, I think maybe there is a difference between mag card with RF and EMV card with RF? if you use a mag reader, maybe you can read the card information out and copy the card. With EMV, just like Apple Pay, each reading is only valid once. Similarly, EMV card when read by RF will generate a one time code to the RF reader, not using the card number itself, right?

So maybe we can assume mag with RF is dangerous, and EMV with RF is not?

They can get the data, but it's pretty useless. They can get the PAN and expiration date, but that alone can't be used to make a transaction for the most part anymore.

It's a very inefficient attack compared to attacking systems, it's just not a realistic concern at all.