Come on, kebosabi, this is FlyerTalk! :) We're always trying to optimize our earn and burn ratios. :D If I play the devil's advocate, I would say we could avoid both of these problems, DCC and lack of EMV/PIN transactions, by paying cash. Furthermore, I don't expect all merchants would know about the Discover/JCB/UnionPay interoperability agreements. You said it yourself on the EMV thread that you wouldn't expect a cashier at Taco Bell in Missoula, MT to accept a JCB credit card, so why assume the reverse would be true?

I'm afraid we're some of the few who care about these issues, so even if all of us switched to using Discover only in China it wouldn't even be a blip on Visa/MC's radar. There would be plenty of unsuspecting visitors with foreign currency denominated cards getting hit with DCC.

Nah. Cash earns nothing, Discover at least earns something! :D

If it's a three way race between choosing VISA/MC vs. Discover vs. cash, then the best option will still be Discover. Less hassle, no annual fee, no FTF, no DCC, and still earns something.

And for the Discover card that I have, between Jan-Mar, restaurants earn 5% cashback, so if I'm in Asia during that time, Discover actually becomes my preferred card at the restaurant in China.

I don't. And can even attest to it that even in places out in rural Japan, it took some convincing to let them run through my Discover Card via the JCB network. I was able to get by because I could actually speak Japanese, so I would imagine that it would be more difficult for an average American with a Discover card out in rural Japan.

For Discover and Union Pay however, Discover actually has this printable wallet card pdf that I can cut, fold, and laminate. Haven't had any trouble so far in China by just handing this pdf to them, which is a great plus for someone who can't speak Mandarin or Cantonese (but can sort of read the characters through kanji).

And no, I have no idea why Discover would have this printable wallet card for Union Pay but not for JCB. Thanks for putting into light of this, I'll send off a secure message to Discover if they can create a wallet card pdf for JCB merchants in Japan as well.

Taco Bell in Missoula happily accepts UnionPay cards at least, and finds them interesting, so I doubt JCB would be an issue.

I also recall you mentioning that since Missoula is a college town with int'l students. The Taco Bell and likely the Burger King next to it are likely to be well aware of int'l students paying for stuff with Union Pay cards.

While you guys might hate "Mainland China", Taiwan's --and to a much lesser extent, Hong Kong's-- economies are dependent upon it for their survival. In spite of this "macro" stuff, China is pretty cool country on the personal level.

@percysmith: The restaurant manager I told you about here in Shekou is really looking forward to meeting you because he is embarrassed by DCC, and wants to fix the problem. He promises us free drinks for our efforts.

Thanks for this thread! When I was offered to pay in usd in Scotland I knew what it was.
Data points:
Had one vendor tell me there are no fees for it and the rate is better than my card offers.
Had one vendor tell me the register is set that way and they can't change it.

I'm worried for Hong Kong but glad that bringing discover is an option.

Actually using Unionpay will be better for me than a Visa/Mastercard given better exchange rate http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=11430&p=5 #41. But the maths will be in Visa/Mastercard's favour if there's a overseas spending promo - I don't like being denied my opportunity to earn that.

On the contrary, I think it would be easier at Taco Bell in Missoula, because of cultural issues. Taco Bell in the US is likely to be staffed by minimum wage teenagers who don't have a clue and don't really care, and will probably swipe whatever you give them. When was the last time you had a cashier check the logo on the card before swiping? In Japan, society is more about following rules and maintaining order, and staff are better paid and more professional, so it will be harder to get them to "just try it".

But it's still a cop-out to avoid DCC. Just like with mag stripe only cards, the only thing I want is for there to be a true choice of whether or not to use DCC in the transaction. I actually praised Discover in the wiki because they have been the most proactive about educating consumers about DCC even though Discover cards are not subject to it.

We also have to recognize that circumstances may change, and there may be a point in the future when AmEx and Discover also bring the scourge of DCC to their networks. Even though right now using AmEx or Discover might be the path of least resistance, in the future it might not be the case.

I wasn't aware of the pocket card for merchants using UnionPay, but it's a fantastic idea. ^

However, I imagine the first person who actually look at the card may have took some convincing, but as cbn42 says, in the US they're far more likely just to try things:

I imagine in almost all cases in the US the cashier mindlessly swipes the card. It doesn't require any calculations. You don't have to think. The transaction just happens. When someone pays with cash, it's almost unexpected now, and I always thnk of these Visa payWave commercials. :D

I harbor no animosity toward the Mainland, but my other half has had no inclination to visit. The biggest issue for both of us is the hassle factor in obtaining the necessary documents - táibāozhèng for her and an L Visa for me. We will be going for a wedding in June 2015, so I look forward to avoiding DCC there. ^

Yes, very true. Dairy Queen does reject one of @jamar's UnionPay cards though, not because it is UnionPay but because the terminal just won't take it (it says invalid card number or something like that). Only the one with a 19-digit or something number.

I'm glad this thread helped you on your trip. In the case of the second vendor, were you able to pay in GBP? If not, did you write "local option not offered" on the receipt before signing?

In the case of the first merchant, many of them feed you this garbage. There would be no additional fees on your card issuer's side if your card levied a currency exchange fee. However, most (all?) cards issued in the US have a foreign transaction fee rather than a currency exchange fee. This means that even if the transaction is denominated in USD, you will still get hit with a FTF if you card has one just because the purchase occurred outside of the US. Fortunately many good cards now have 0% FTF.

The rate for DCC usually a markup of 2-5%, and there have been few cases where the DCC rate has been cheaper than the bank's rate. Furthermore, going back to my previous point, if you're carrying a card with a 3% FTF, you're going to be paying anywhere from 5-8% when you add in the DCC and FTF.

I actually support Taiwan with respect to the 两岸问题, but the writing is on the wall. Please feel free to PM me in advance of your trip. You will have a nice time.

Yup, I'm glad I knew so I could decline. Probably was offered dcc 10 or so times.
For the merchant that said it was set that way, I just paid in cash.

Not these days. As with the US, many businesses in Japan have gone under due to a stagnating economy and have been replaced with big name retail chains who cut costs and staff themselves with minimum wage workers.

In terms of wages, Japanese minimum wage earners are paid about the same as their peers in the US; higher in the metropolitan areas (approx $10/hr or so) and lower in the rural areas (around to $7/hr).

So in terms of professionalism, it's not because they are better paid. It's more because of a culture where you're not supposed to question your superiors and you're supposed to follow rules. But these days, even that idea is also starting to crumble by the youth who make up the majority of minimum wage earners. "Why should we follow all these stupid rules and ideas, and overwork ourselves to the point of death when these black companies aren't paying us enough money?"

First world problems, same in the US, same in Japan.

I'm glad you were able to avoid the scam. In the other cases, did you offer proactively to the cashier that you wanted to be charged in GBP, or did some merchants actually give you the choice? How much pushback did you get with except the one who said it would offer you a better rate/no fees?