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-   -   Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1542983-dynamic-currency-conversion-dcc-2014-2016-a.html)

RTW1 Jul 21, 2014 6:18 am

Depending on when the refund is processed there are actually different ways to link the refund to the original transaction.... but you also need to realize that sometimes the software of a POS is set-up in a way that the average user only has limited options, for instance to combat fraud by doing refunds. That's also why sometimes the DCC option is prominent and the local currency might not even exist in that basic user screen.

percysmith Jul 21, 2014 6:37 am


Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR (Post 23230444)
I don't get how any credit card terminal can lack a "void" mechanism. Mistakes occur sometimes accidentally sometimes deliberately. Something costs €23.00 and the merchant accidentally slips on the decimal point and enters €2300 and the purchase is authorized whether with dcc or not. You mean to tell me there is no way a merchant can void the transaction to correct the error? Or what in those situations where a merchant pulls the dcc scam without permissin of the scamee and rather than fight it, the scamee decided to pay cash. You mean to tell me in this situation the transaction cannot be voided? Again, I have two words for that and the first word is a synonym for a male cow.

You correct by refunding.
It works perfectly from a local currency point of view.

Also:
- in both Harrods's and GL's cases, the card terminal is tightly integrated into the POS, so corrections can only be done on an item-by-item basis not a slip-by-slip basis; and
- provided Harrods and/or GL is charged interchange on a net basis by their acquirers, they aren't given much incentive to void slips as opposed to charging and refunding them.



Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR (Post 23230444)
One of the problems with a refund as opposed to a void from my understanding but I could be wrong is that if one is moronic enough to use a credit card with a ftf, the 3% is added to purchases and subtracted from refunds. I don't know if that is still the policy, indeed it was once but if it is, then you lose 6% on the transaction. That is why any payment system must included a provision for voids because errors happen even accidentally.

As the up-himself Global Blue service person in GL Montparnesse told me - that's an issue for you and your issuer bank

Majuki Jul 21, 2014 8:32 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23230354)

I would suggest:
- for holds, hand over an Amex where accepted. One whose limits you don't plan to use.
- finalise with V/MC.

Yeah, using AmEx for holds is a good route to go. In one case I think it even prevented me from being charged DCC. (This was at Hotel Arts in Barcelona.) To hold the room I used my AmEx, but I settled the bill using a Visa from Chase. The receipt alluded to the option of paying in your home currency, but I scrutinized the entire receipt to make sure there weren't any dollar signs or indication of USD being charged. I have no way of knowing if using AmEx initially kicked the system out of DCC mode, but it's something I can try this fall in Macau if we stay at the Venetian again.

This won't work at the Novotel in Taoyuan because the credit card terminal and reservation system aren't linked, but I will ask to settle the bill using a card other than the AmEx. This is one thing I like about how checkout is done outside of North America where you settle the bill upon checkout rather than checking out offline. It reduces the chance of surprises later on.

kebosabi Jul 21, 2014 12:27 pm

Reading through the wiki, I'd like to make a pointer:

On the part that says:

"If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute."

Dispute where should be clarified.
  • To VISA or MC?
  • To your credit card issuer? If so, which department? Clueless frontline script reading CSRs in India over the phone? CSR supervisors who are hopefully based in the US? Specific department?
  • To the network bank that did the DCC? If so, which department? Clueless frontline script reading CSRs over the phone? CSR supervisors? Specific department?
  • The merchant? If so, is the dispute towards the minimum wage cashier who doesn't care and has no management authority? The manager who's following management rules and has no authority to override board member decisions? Or the board members of the company itself?
  • The POS terminal manufacturer?

There's many players in the credit card transactions environment so where and whom to dispute to should be spelled out.

And if possible I really suggest creating a downloadable template for this to make it easier to do disputes. They make the DCC process systematic to their benefit with layers of corporate bureaucracy, but there's no systematic method to file a dispute. Then, it's up to us as consumer to make it systematic to do disputes as well.

RTW1 Jul 21, 2014 12:44 pm

In reality there's only two parties that you should complain to:
- the merchant that charges your card
- your credit card company for a dispute claiming you didn't get the option to pay in the local currency

Majuki Jul 21, 2014 4:44 pm


Originally Posted by kebosabi (Post 23232374)
Reading through the wiki, I'd like to make a pointer:

On the part that says:

"If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute."

Dispute where should be clarified.

I can edit the wiki, but I think there's little doubt that the dispute is filed with the card issuer, similar to a fraudulent charge. You certainly wouldn't go contacting the POS terminal manufacturer in the event of a fraudulent charge.

The problem with a template is that each issuer has different forms when filing a dispute. The best we can hope for his using consistent language like requesting a "Reason Code 76 chargeback" when filing a dispute with your issuer if the card is a Visa. However, I've not had any consistency among issuers with the process of disputing a transaction. Most allow a dispute online now. Others will mail forms. Some will do both. So there isn't a one-size-fits-all template or flowchart that I can really create.

JEFFJAGUAR Jul 21, 2014 4:55 pm


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23233666)
I can edit the wiki, but I think there's little doubt that the dispute is filed with the card issuer, similar to a fraudulent charge. You certainly wouldn't go contacting the POS terminal manufacturer in the event of a fraudulent charge.

The problem with a template is that each issuer has different forms when filing a dispute. The best we can hope for his using consistent language like requesting a "Reason Code 76 chargeback" when filing a dispute with your issuer if the card is a Visa. However, I've not had any consistency among issuers with the process of disputing a transaction. Most allow a dispute online now. Others will mail forms. Some will do both. So there isn't a one-size-fits-all template or flowchart that I can really create.

Also many issuers for small amounts don't want to be bothered and evenif you request a charge back will simply credit you the difference as happened to me twice...in one case I was disputing a dcc where I never was asked to sign a sales slip and didn't realize I had been gouged till I looked at the slip. The total damage was about 34¢ but to me there is a principle. Of course, it would cost me whatever first class postage is these days to dispute the charge by mail so I tried over the phone. Sure enough, the csr said she would credit the 34¢ and not charge it back. In principle, I wanted it charged back and the amount wasn't that important but there was little else I could do (no, at that point somehow I don't think it would look right to say no to the offer, after all they were resolving the issue in my favor although Majuki anted me to pursue a chargeback. If I could have found their fax number, I can fax for free, I might have!

Majuki Jul 21, 2014 5:07 pm


Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR (Post 23233710)
Also many issuers for small amounts don't want to be bothered and evenif you request a charge back will simply credit you the difference as happened to me twice...in one case I was disputing a dcc where I never was asked to sign a sales slip and didn't realize I had been gouged till I looked at the slip. The total damage was about 34¢ but to me there is a principle. Of course, it would cost me whatever first class postage is these days to dispute the charge by mail so I tried over the phone. Sure enough, the csr said she would credit the 34¢ and not charge it back. In principle, I wanted it charged back and the amount wasn't that important but there was little else I could do (no, at that point somehow I don't think it would look right to say no to the offer, after all they were resolving the issue in my favor although Majuki anted me to pursue a chargeback. If I could have found their fax number, I can fax for free, I might have!

I would have gladly paid first class postage to fight DCC on a nominal amount to the point of pursuing a chargeback in the event I am unwillingly hit with DCC. :D But I understand as a matter of practicality issuers will just eat the charge for small amounts, probably similar to fraudulent charges. I don't know what the threshold would be though to file a chargeback.

kebosabi Jul 21, 2014 5:18 pm


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23233666)
The problem with a template is that each issuer has different forms when filing a dispute.

For the most part, I think the information necessary to file a dispute is the same regardless whether there's a different form format between BofA, Citibank, Chase or some obscure credit union.

It's probably the same fields: your name as written on your credit card, your account number, purpose (reason code), date of transaction, attach copy of receipt in dispute, memo field. Surely they're not going to ask you the name of your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. :D


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23233666)
But I understand as a matter of practicality issuers will just eat the charge for small amounts, probably similar to fraudulent charges. I don't know what the threshold would be though to file a chargeback.

But as soon as the issuers start realizing that more and more people are asking for 34 cent chargebacks, it ends up becoming a large amount overall. 34 cents times one million people filling DCC disputes every day adds up to $124 million in chargebacks per year. That's the level we want to go to: to make them realize how big the figures are through power play by the numbers.

Majuki Jul 21, 2014 6:13 pm


Originally Posted by kebosabi (Post 23233801)

But as soon as the issuers start realizing that more and more people are asking for 34 cent chargebacks, it ends up becoming a large amount overall. 34 cents times one million people filling DCC disputes every day adds up to $124 million in chargebacks per year. That's the level we want to go to: to make them realize how big the figures are through power play by the numbers.

That's the idea. It might be a small amount individually but can really add up in the aggregate. It's kind of like the EMV fight where issuers started to listen to many customer demands of their magstripe only cards being refused overseas.

emilio911 Jul 21, 2014 6:27 pm

Hotwire
 
Hotwire does it all the time. I am Canadian. I always checkout in USD and they charge me in CAD. Any clue on how to avoid the fee?

Majuki Jul 21, 2014 6:40 pm


Originally Posted by emilio911 (Post 23234059)
Hotwire does it all the time. I am Canadian. I always checkout in USD and they charge me in CAD. Any clue on how to avoid the fee?

It depends how they process the transaction. It's always hard to tell with some of these online websites. Does your bank charge a foreign transaction fee? I haven't had direct experience with Hotwire, but you can always file a dispute with your card issuer if you are getting hit with DCC.

zyxlsy Jul 21, 2014 7:29 pm


Originally Posted by emilio911 (Post 23234059)
Hotwire does it all the time. I am Canadian. I always checkout in USD and they charge me in CAD. Any clue on how to avoid the fee?

I think next time you need to watch the steps on Hotwire very carefully. It should be kind of hidden at a stage.

Like Avis, its website's account management portal has a check-box described as "convenient of paying in your home currency, opt-out" kind of stuff.

percysmith Jul 22, 2014 8:35 am

Fresh meat - DCC by Venetian and Chevignon Macau http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12533&p=1

This case should be fun cos the issuer (HSBC HK) is very cardholder friendly, so the DCC victims (a hongkongcard.comer and her husband) should be able to get a chargeback done.

YuropFlyer Jul 22, 2014 8:38 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23236730)
Fresh meat - DCC by Venetian and Chevignon Macau http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12533&p=1

This case should be fun cos the issuer (HSBC HK) is very cardholder friendly, so the DCC victims (a hongkongcard.comer and her husband) should be able to get a chargeback done.

Aren't most charges in Casino hotels in Macao in HK$ anyway?

Guess that's kind of a tricky situation?


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