ssullivan

Are we really beating this long-dead horse again?

ijgordon

It doesn't matter -- the "Elite Upgrade" icon will show on a Y fare irrespective of the purchaser's status (or whether one is logged in at all), assuming there is FC availability. And yes, these Y-fare upgrades come out of unrestricted A inventory. Well, technically it's "AU" inventory, which virtually always maps to "A" inventory.

You have a stronger leg to stand on when you are on a First Class fare in the case of irregular ops, or even in the case you just want to change your flight or standby for another one. If you're on a Y fare then you'd just get put in coach, with the normal priority for an elite upgrade; if you're on an A fare, then you'd be at the top of the priority list for FC.
Also don't forget that A fares earn 50% bonus miles. Sometimes the extra fare is worth it just for that on a cost per mile basis.
Lastly, some companies have a corporate policy that allows First Class, like mine does on flights over 5 hours. So I just buy the A fare. A lot of times I just hold a reservation without ticketing, and then have the ticket issued a few days before departure. If I did a Y fare, I couldn't confirm the upgrade until I purchased the ticket, so I'd either have to purchase it earlier and have it sit on my credit card, or chance that FC fills up before I can ticket. And when flights are sold out in FC, I can waitlist on an A fare. I've had to do this a number of times, and it always clears automatically.

ijgordon

I'm not sure how you get that, but in any event, I don't think CO markets its elite upgrade windows any differently from any other frequent flier program, and I think it's pretty safe to say that those other programs also don't guarantee upgrades at the window if FC seats are open.

craz

besides CO & NW does any other carrier have the 5-3-1 day deal. AA & UA use stickers, I believe thats for the lower 2 levels only. I think if I remember correctly AA never put it that an Up can be had anytime theres FC seats. CO simply markets the UPs and gives the impression that once you attain Elite status you can be upgraded at the 1 day window etc etc, but doesnt mention that in order for that Up to clear we would have had to put the FC seat into a certain bucket fare and we might not do that.

Again I fully understand CO not upgrading a Plat at the 5 day window if they know from their history that they should beable to sell that seat as a FC or Y-UP seat. Its just I do get every month a few people calling me and asking to whom must they call to get their UP cleared as they see there are FC seats and they havent gotten the UP although their window passed a couple of hrs ago. Mostly Silvers at that, a couple of new Golds.

DillMan

I rarely buy paid premium cabins domestically, but if the flight appears brutal (transcon redeye), I have something super important to do when I land, or I'm paying so much for Y that it is only a few extra $ to buy a YUP or other discounted F ticket, I'll do it.

That said, for all the times I sit sweating an upgrade, I fully understand and expect the airlines to hold back seats until the last second. Wrhy? Not because I know they are "in the business of selling, not giving", but because I've paid for F and then had IIROPS enough to respect that it is good Karma to leave a few revenue seats to accomodate displaced paid F customers before handing out upgrades. If I keep that in my mind, then when my paid F flight goes IRROPS, i will be able to stay in my paid cabin when I am reaccomodated.

ijgordon

Yes, they ALL have something like a 5-3-1 deal. On AA it's 100 hours, 72 hours and 24 hours. The upgrades come from a special inventory bucket just for elite upgrades, which by the way is different from the bucket for mileage upgrades. It's actually even more restricted. The stickers just mean that if you want an upgrade you have to request and "pay" for it, it has nothing to do with when the upgrades clear. I can assure you that as a current AA Platinum (mid-tier) and former AA Executive Platinum (top-tier), upgrades do NOT often clear exactly at these windows. I'm pretty sure you'll find the same with DL, UA, NW and US.

Again, I'd really like you to point out how CO markets its program differently from the others, because you seem to keep on making this stuff up that has no basis in reality.

PVDtoGO

Perhaps we are all a little to close to this, after all we spend all this time here.

I know I understand how it works, but that is from experience and from reading so many informed and helpful posts here. Anyone else curious how the Flyertalk-Free masses see the concept.

Tomorrow, I am going to go into the office and ask a couple of random travelers to peek at the CO website, the elite part, and ask them what they think it means. I know... i know... I have a little bit of time on my hands!!!! :-)

Anyone else have a couple of minutes to try?

The horse is dead....but why is it still kicking!!!!!!!


Edit: I do agree, this is not unusual to market something to appear more than it is, and while my upgrades have been more successful on Northworst, CO is still not that bad...at least i don't need stickers.

craz

Im also a Plat, LifeTime at that-2MM, but havent flown AA so much in the past few yrs. I remember that except for EXPs, stickers had to be used or miles but we arent discussing using miles now. I dont remember the 100-72-24 windows but do remember a number of times purchasing atkt and asking if I could use my stickers for an UP that I earned when I flew AA. I was able at times to use the stickers well before any 100-72-24 window. Im sure things have changed over the past yrs.

Now for your question about CO. I dont remember seeing nor reading much from AA on how as an Elite I will be able to be Upgraded and fly in Biz or FC. I do remember the past few yrs constantly seeing and reading ads from CO about enjoying FC by being an Elite and uping at no cost to me in $$ or miles. As I said before I do get a few people calling me up every so often asking whom they have to call since their window passed and they werent UPed.

I also had a few people start to fly CO and they accumulated a few 100k in miles within yr+ , only to find out that very rarely does CO have BF standard awards available and if it is its the last second due to not selling the seats. These people are based overseas and on a conference call to OP with them I heard the CSR, chew them out for wanting to use the miles on 1 of COs most profitable routes and 1 where it usually has no problems selling its BF seats even as Js. I asked the CSR to review the persons acct and tell me where is it they should fly from? its then that the CSR realized the person was not US based, and simply said well they can usally cash out at EasyPass now 3x what Standard is. These people have since stopped purchasing tkts on CO, which although not J were D & Z and cost appx 3-4k. My point is CO more then the others sells itself in ways that is not 100% truthful.

again dont get me wrong, I fully understand CO not opening all its seats and in some cases no seats for award travel, but thats not how it sells itself to those who are based overseas and thusly really dont have much of a choice. Take someone from India who after attaining a few 100k decide to use their miles for a pleasure trip to the US only to find say that CO doesnt usually offer BF in the standard level, what should they do buy atkt to LHR and then fly to NY free from there. Id say it doesnt pay for a person based in India to fly CO, since they can only fly CO between India and the US. They should find a program where they can use the miles they earn.

I like the OP orginally thought yrs ago when I joined OP that it was buy the tkt and if FC is available its yours, at your window. Yrs ago CO UPed alot more at the window, lately that doesnt happen and from COs side rightfully so. No problems as long as CO doesnt try to get someone to think that they will get the UP at EUA w/o using their miles simply if FC has seats opened. Heck if anything theres been more UPing at the 3 hr window or at the gate, then Id say at the window.

Lastly I have given none CO members the benefits and have asked then to interpret them to me. Never did anyone ever say well CO is saying when you window opens if by chance they placed some seats into the special bucket that they use for EUAing the UPgrade will be yours. They all say what a great Program,CO will upgarde you from Coach to FC Craz 5 days before your flight (since Im Plat) as long as theres an open FC seat. When I explain to them what really takes place they ask me why doesnt CO say that, thats not the impression they got from reading the benefits page.

Nough said, Im not complaining about you or I know to be the way CO does things, Im complaining from what Joe on the street understands from reading the benefits and knows nothing about CO

ContinentalFan

To reiterate other comments, you're guilty of the most common misinterpretation of CO's upgrade policy for domestic flights. I guess the policy or process is obvious to most of us here, but we've dealt with it for some time. I don't know what CO has to do to make the process clearer--it seems pretty clear to me right now.

CO wants to try and sell the seats first;
Just because a seat is empty, doesn't mean it's available.

Don't get too excited by the prospect of an upgrade--I find them pretty rare on CO! Managing expectations, IMHO, is the key to a pleasant travel experience.

ContinentalFan

I loaded the CO website and read through the OP program description, trying to put myself in the mindset of a neophyte that has never before flown on CO. To my surprise, I have to agree with you--and apologize to the OP. I think that the website description does lend itself to the misinterpretation that, when the window arrives, empty FC seats are doled out to frequent flyers. A slight modification to the description could add clarification without compromising, IMHO, the intent of the marketing people to add value to the program.

ContinentalFan

I guess the big issue is corporate travel policy. Even if the Y fare (Y-UP) were $100 more expensive, many companies would allow purchase of such a ticket but deny--or create hassles--for a cheaper, FC ticket.

I have mentioned to people at CO many times that they should have the equivalent of an international, BF Y-UP--it could be priced higher than coach, as long as it is coded as coach and not as business.

craz

Bingo! thats all Ive been trying to say. I wasnt saying CO must Upgrade us. Just that when anyone reads it they shouldnt think that they will be automatically Upgraded if FC has open seats.

Maybe even something as simple as 'not all open FC seats are available for Upgrading'. As they have done regarding award tkts

dlen111

when i first became elite, and no idea FT even existed, i had no idea how the system really worked.

i would expect an upgrade and then wonder, to no end, why i didnt get one, even when seats were available after my upgrade window. a call to CO would simply get a "upgrade seats are not available."

but CO says i am entitled to a complimentary upgrade "when seats are available." what exactly "available" means is what throws the many people off.

I know what it means NOW, as do most of us, but to others, its appears deceptive for CO to market the perk in the way that they do. I tend to agree with the OP and others, that program description is quite misleading.

smcgrath12

Well, I am not a regular traveller, so don't know the implications of this. Why do you think of this? Upgrade nobody until, say, 12 hour (or 6 or 24 or whatever, or CO can code this window differently for different flights based on their revenue expectations, but clearly advertised) mark before your first flight. And keep the same upgrade rules, Y-UP (elite status), fare paid, time of booking, time of checkin, whatever. But at that 12 hour mark, if a FC seat is available (whatever fare buckets), upgrade.

rjque

That wouldn't work for people who buy full fare F tickets, as we tend to like to change our flight at the last minute. The last thing CO wants is people refunding their F tickets and walking over to AA.