First Class Section Sizes
Mar 19, 2008 | 8:43 am
#32
Join Date: May 2005
Location: various cities in the USofA: NYC, BWI, IAH, ORD, CVG, NYC
Programs: Former UA 1K, National Exec. Elite
Posts: 5,487
Mar 19, 2008 | 8:59 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: UA S; Marriott LG; IHG P; Hertz PC; AA, WN, Pan Am!
Posts: 820
My wallet's too damn fat (work/personal CCs, work/personal ID, Health card, Dental Card, voters reg, various store discount cards, etc. Since I have to show my DL anyway to access the PC, I'd prefer if they could just scan that.
This one I'll give you, but I've only really used it once (but F round trip to HNL for 75k miles each was nice)
I'd roll the lower fees for FF into the FF availability. That's a large part of what makes it more available is the ability to hold something and change it when something better opens up. PC fees don't effect me as I went lifetime about 9 years ago (before I was anything).
So I guess I'm in it for FF availability... Oh, and early boarding... and ERJ-145 Row 12.
Mar 19, 2008 | 9:23 am
#34
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Marriott LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,932
All of CO's announcements on increasing the number of FC seats - like on the 753, and 738 and 739 - have highlighted that this provides better opportunity for Elite upgrades.
The net is that on the 738 and 739 - CO is adding 2 FC seats and not changing the number of coach seats. Hence, whether they sell those 2 extra seats (which they can on a transcon) or upgrade two Elites from coach and then can sell 2 more coach sets - the net is an increase in revenue.
CO is also adding 2 more BF seats on the 777 (48 to 50) with changes to the entertainment system. Then net is two more revenue seats.
The net is that on the 738 and 739 - CO is adding 2 FC seats and not changing the number of coach seats. Hence, whether they sell those 2 extra seats (which they can on a transcon) or upgrade two Elites from coach and then can sell 2 more coach sets - the net is an increase in revenue.
CO is also adding 2 more BF seats on the 777 (48 to 50) with changes to the entertainment system. Then net is two more revenue seats.
Mar 19, 2008 | 9:42 am
#35
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: DL MM/FC/FO; UA PS; AA GLD
Posts: 2,063
This is exactly the post I was coming here to make. The problem is not so much the cabin size, but the aircraft assignments. Many of my routes that used to be on 738s are now on 733, 735 (with a 20% smaller cabin) and 73Gs -- assuming they haven't been downgraded from mainline aircraft.
My connections out of IAH (or into on returns) still often have upgrade potentiality, but it has gotten remarkably hard to avoid Y -- and often a less desirable seat in Y -- on AUS-IAH or the reverse. This would be no big deal, of course, if it didn't involve boarding 25 min early; sitting on the ground/taxiing at IAH for 45-50 minutes; and then anothe 20+ minutes for taxi/deplane in AUS... it's often 2 hours on the plane for a trip that in my younger days I drove in that time (admittedly late-ish with no traffic).
My connections out of IAH (or into on returns) still often have upgrade potentiality, but it has gotten remarkably hard to avoid Y -- and often a less desirable seat in Y -- on AUS-IAH or the reverse. This would be no big deal, of course, if it didn't involve boarding 25 min early; sitting on the ground/taxiing at IAH for 45-50 minutes; and then anothe 20+ minutes for taxi/deplane in AUS... it's often 2 hours on the plane for a trip that in my younger days I drove in that time (admittedly late-ish with no traffic).
Don't get me started.
Mar 19, 2008 | 9:44 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PVD
Programs: Priority Club Plat
Posts: 12,312
For the really long routes, CO only sells 44 BF seats as up to 4 seats may be blocked for crew rest. The refurbished planes not only have the 2 extra seats, but also crew rest quarters. So, they can sell all 50 seats once all planes are converted. That's an increase of up to 6 BF seats on these planes.
Mar 19, 2008 | 10:33 am
#37
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Programs: United 1K,Marriott Platinum Premier,IHC Platinum Ambassador,Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,898
I will take this a different direction. Since the planes are "packed to the gills" - CO needed more seats on the 735 to make it more profitable. Removing one row of F on the 735 (minus 4 F seats) - CO was able to add 12 coach seats - which is a big increase for this aircraft. CO later reconfigured the closet area and gained 2 FC seats - so the net was: minus 2 FC seats, plus 12 coach seats - a net gain of 10 seats - close to a 10% increase.
The 735 being the smallest 737 is the least profitable of the 737's. Basically a 735 requires the same expenses as a larger 73G/738/739 with an extra FA.
Plus the 735 flies on shorter flights - like DCA-EWR and on the longer flights - the routes are not necessarily routes with lots of FC ticket purchases.
Also - CO is starting to phase out the 735 - getting rid of some this year.
The 735 being the smallest 737 is the least profitable of the 737's. Basically a 735 requires the same expenses as a larger 73G/738/739 with an extra FA.
Plus the 735 flies on shorter flights - like DCA-EWR and on the longer flights - the routes are not necessarily routes with lots of FC ticket purchases.
Also - CO is starting to phase out the 735 - getting rid of some this year.
Mar 19, 2008 | 2:50 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Programs: UA GS4Life, AF/KL Lifetime Plat, BA Gold, AA 1MM, IC Diamond RA, Hyatt Humorist, Bonv Plat, et alia
Posts: 2,741
How so? The reconfig was positioned as being "mostly short-haul routes." Try to keep these planes on beverage-only flights, and there's not much service to begin with.
If it's a meal flight, there's no reason that 1 FA can't handle 10-12 seats, while another beings beverages in the back. Then they can help out once completed.
It's certainly doable.
If it's a meal flight, there's no reason that 1 FA can't handle 10-12 seats, while another beings beverages in the back. Then they can help out once completed.
It's certainly doable.
Mar 19, 2008 | 3:01 pm
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PDX
Programs: AS Titanium, Marriott Lifetime Plat, UA Gold
Posts: 11,596
Yeah, time in the air. Time on the plane is what counts. I have been on great, short AUS-IAH and IAH-AUS flights and I've been on ones that took over two hours from gate to gate (no weather).
Mar 19, 2008 | 6:34 pm
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Manhattan
Programs: CO Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,468
Between DCA and EWR has similar problems. I never flew the flights between PHL and EWR before they stopped attempting to fly them. Somehow I suspect they were even more infuriating -- when they were not cancelled.
Mar 24, 2008 | 4:16 am
#41
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: DL MM/FC/FO; UA PS; AA GLD
Posts: 2,063
I was kidding. I know all too well about those flights. Two weeks ago, FC wasn't served pre-departures because "it's such a short flight." We finally made it to the gate at IAH three hours later and the seatbelt light was on from the time the door was closed. It was irritating to me because, when I asked, one of the FAs said they were "trying to hurry to get the plane turned around," yet all three of the FAs had time--fifteen minutes--to chat/joke in the galley with the FO who had stepped out of the cockpit waiting for the GA to bring the final paper work on board. I could have had all eight drinks (it was a 735) out in three minutes, especially if I had two other FAs up front to help. FWIW, I was in FC on a full-fare ticket, not an EUA.
Mar 27, 2008 | 8:37 pm
#42
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Frisco (Dallas area), TX
Programs: UA Lifetime 1K (MM), AA Lifetime Platinum (MM), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 268
I fly EWR-DFW frequently and HATE the all-735 situation!! I have done numerous flights (less convenient) via IAH to avoid them. The sad fact is that a friend of mine who is an AAdvantage gold has an almost equal upgrade percentage as I do as a CO Infinite Platinum.
In addition, when you do not get the EUA, the back of a 735 is misrable!
[QUOTE=vsevolod4;9434884]Agreed, but I have unfortunately seen the 735 on more than short-haul routes.
In addition, when you do not get the EUA, the back of a 735 is misrable!
[QUOTE=vsevolod4;9434884]Agreed, but I have unfortunately seen the 735 on more than short-haul routes.
Mar 27, 2008 | 10:01 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PVD
Programs: Priority Club Plat
Posts: 12,312
A flight or two later this year will become 733.
Mar 28, 2008 | 12:35 am
#44
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: DL DM/MM; UA Premier 1K; AA EXP; ICH Plat Ambassador
Posts: 1,565
i am sfo based, and was plat on CO for 5 years, and finally gave up, back to UA It was not so much just taking seats out, as different aircraft on the SFO-EWR and IAH routes i had to fly. When i started it was always a 752 with 24 or a md-83 with (my memmory is fuzzy, 18?). so the relative number of F to Y was greater, I always got upgraded. Then they started running 735s with 8F to IAH and 738 with 14F to EWR, upgrades became nearly impossible.
Hey CO is a great airline when it runs right (but bad at IROPS), on time reliable, clearn, etc, but the EUP thing is broken, even with a Y or B I can't get upgraded to EWR to save my life. since FF redemption is non-existant, I simply have no reason to fly them anylonger.
sort of off topic, but i wonder if CO is begaining to loose CO FFs from non-captive markets to others (UA or AA). When I dumped UA and AA for CO, I used to see a lot of refugees in F, now that I'm back to UA, I see a lot of ex CO FFs back in F on UA....they always say its the upgrades.
Hey CO is a great airline when it runs right (but bad at IROPS), on time reliable, clearn, etc, but the EUP thing is broken, even with a Y or B I can't get upgraded to EWR to save my life. since FF redemption is non-existant, I simply have no reason to fly them anylonger.
sort of off topic, but i wonder if CO is begaining to loose CO FFs from non-captive markets to others (UA or AA). When I dumped UA and AA for CO, I used to see a lot of refugees in F, now that I'm back to UA, I see a lot of ex CO FFs back in F on UA....they always say its the upgrades.
I've complained about the almost worthless Platinum benefits for someone living in SFO to CO Insider so many times, I have lost count. There just doesn't seem to be any commitment at CO to fix this broken program (perhaps give a couple domestic upgrade certs to Plats in you markets with the lowest upgrade ratios???). This will be my last year as Plat on CO. The wonderful, customer-oriented airline is something of folklore.
Mar 28, 2008 | 6:31 am
#45
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Programs: UA gold, AA Plat, HHonors diamond, DL DM
Posts: 705
How do you define "short haul" 735 flights?
If IAH-MIA is short haul according to your definition, then you can justify the use of 735's on that flight. I commute to MIA from SAT each week and the fact that CO insists on using 735's on IAH-MIA route, with the resulting low upgrade percentage, caused me to shift much of my travel to AA. IME IAH-MIA, while not a transcon by any means, is not a short haul, especially if you fly it each week. SAT-IAH in 735 is a short haul, IAH-MIA is not.