i am sfo based, and was plat on CO for 5 years, and finally gave up, back to UA It was not so much just taking seats out, as different aircraft on the SFO-EWR and IAH routes i had to fly. When i started it was always a 752 with 24 or a md-83 with (my memmory is fuzzy, 18?). so the relative number of F to Y was greater, I always got upgraded. Then they started running 735s with 8F to IAH and 738 with 14F to EWR, upgrades became nearly impossible.

Hey CO is a great airline when it runs right (but bad at IROPS), on time reliable, clearn, etc, but the EUP thing is broken, even with a Y or B I can't get upgraded to EWR to save my life. since FF redemption is non-existant, I simply have no reason to fly them anylonger.

sort of off topic, but i wonder if CO is begaining to loose CO FFs from non-captive markets to others (UA or AA). When I dumped UA and AA for CO, I used to see a lot of refugees in F, now that I'm back to UA, I see a lot of ex CO FFs back in F on UA....they always say its the upgrades.

This is exactly the post I was coming here to make. The problem is not so much the cabin size, but the aircraft assignments. Many of my routes that used to be on 738s are now on 733, 735 (with a 20% smaller cabin) and 73Gs -- assuming they haven't been downgraded from mainline aircraft.

My connections out of IAH (or into on returns) still often have upgrade potentiality, but it has gotten remarkably hard to avoid Y -- and often a less desirable seat in Y -- on AUS-IAH or the reverse. This would be no big deal, of course, if it didn't involve boarding 25 min early; sitting on the ground/taxiing at IAH for 45-50 minutes; and then anothe 20+ minutes for taxi/deplane in AUS... it's often 2 hours on the plane for a trip that in my younger days I drove in that time (admittedly late-ish with no traffic).

Some of the scheduling is seasonal. If you look up the timetable for summer, say August, IAH-AUS will have 739x4 and 738x3-4. 733/G only for 3-4x and no 735.

That's true, but unfortunately summer months are my slow travel times, as I my slow travel times, as I imagine is true for many biz travelers. Jan-April and Sept-Nov are the only months I traveled in last year. This year I didn't have a flight until Feb.

??

I'm sure everyone would love the service from the one remaining FA in coach...

Good comment.

Yanks will blow a fuse when I say this but I think CO underestimates the attrition factor as the average business travelers grow more and more fed up with CO's lack of consistently delivering on FF benefits.

And I type this as I sit aboard my LAX-AUS flight.

Granted I did not get the upgrade, but I did at least get E+ on the CRJ UA uses to service LAX-AUS.

Oh and ontop of everything else, I was booked LAX-DEN-AUS and UA was able to quickly change my routing to the non-stop.

So at the end of the day I got 1) a painless reroute on a more direct route 2) E+, and the potential for a F upgrade, on a RJ, and 3) a decent E seat that even TWA Fan could make do in without a trip to the chiropractor.

What would CO offer?

Iffy shot at an upgrade, an exit row (if booked soon enough), and a major hassle to change the routing to a more efficient one.

We're actually in the middle of converting some of the current 737-800s that had 14/141 configurations by slicing part of the Closet, and putting in an extra two f/c seats. Then, getting rid of the forward part of the aft galley in order to move the lavatories across from each other, which allows an extra three m/c seats. The same is true with some of the current 737-900s with 18/149 configurations.

Hmmm....well I wonder where all those 738s went. CO didn't get rid of them, did they??? Somebody then must be having much better upgrade success. But I guess they're not posting here.

I will take this a different direction. Since the planes are "packed to the gills" - CO needed more seats on the 735 to make it more profitable. Removing one row of F on the 735 (minus 4 F seats) - CO was able to add 12 coach seats - which is a big increase for this aircraft. CO later reconfigured the closet area and gained 2 FC seats - so the net was: minus 2 FC seats, plus 12 coach seats - a net gain of 10 seats - close to a 10% increase.

The 735 being the smallest 737 is the least profitable of the 737's. Basically a 735 requires the same expenses as a larger 73G/738/739 with an extra FA.

Plus the 735 flies on shorter flights - like DCA-EWR and on the longer flights - the routes are not necessarily routes with lots of FC ticket purchases.

Also - CO is starting to phase out the 735 - getting rid of some this year.

According to what CO Insider has posted, the 738s have all had the two additional F seats added -- or at least they're very, very close to being done. I don't think any of the 18/149 739s have had the two additional F seats added to bring them to 20/149. But the newly delivered 739-ERs are coming with 20 F seats.

According to "CALTECH" on a.net, 739 #402 is in MCO right now to get winglets and the two extra F seats.

So the role of F seats is to upgrade people? I thought that CO was in business to MAKE money?

When you go to the store, do you take a gallon of milk to the cashier and ask to be charged for a 1/2 gallon?

They only went to 6 seats for a very short period while they were in the process of adding the 2 FC seats to where the coat closet was..it was planned that way as to not keep airplanes out of service.

A FF benefit is an Space Avialable Upgrade..That means if space is not available you dont get upgraded..If being in first class is important to you..buy a First Class ticket..CO seems to be doing a good job of actually selling most of their First Class seats and thats why you dont get an upgrade..@:-)

I think everbody understands this. What it also means is that CO's success in selling F seats reduces the value of CO's primary benefit in the Elite program.

If you're buying F seats anyway, what is the value of being Elite? A mileage bonus?