Are you basing what you consider Shameful anything that you or say most FTers would pass on. I would consider something as Shameful if the GA isnt able to get anyone to bite. If a GA can offer and get someone by giving them a hotel room and FC the next day, that isnt Shameful , but great dealing on COs part.

As for having to get on a flight and ask, it could have been caused by someone deciding after all not to VDB and the GA then asks those who havent gotten on, gets no takers and thusly instead of simply IDBing a passenger goes on board to see if they can get someone. I commend such a GA who didnt take the easy way out and simply IDB the last person standing off the aircraft w/o a BP.

Given the circumstances I have and might give up my Upgraded seat in FC for a VDB. Depends on where Im heading and if Im under any deadline. Although Idadmitt probably not for $100 even with the Hotel room. If I was in coach, then with FC confirmed and a Hotel room and the $100 Id probbaly get off the plane

I was on EWR-SJC (only flight of the day) and they were really in trouble.
When i arrived at the gate the offer was $400, next day's flight and hotel. They upped it to 500. I told them send me to CLE overnight and they don't need the hotel. Done.
EWR-SJC -> EWR-CLE/ CLE-IAH-SJC + $500.

In early 2007 I volunteered for a CLE-MCI flight (ERJ over by 1, fully checked-in). Everyone boarded except 3 adults all with the same last name, all on the same record. Also, they had checked in at the ticket counter.
GA paged them at least 3 times (knew they were in the airport).

Finally the GA thanked me, gave me a drink coupon and had me board.
Just as they were ready close the door, Larry, Darryl, and Darryl showed up.

GA came paged me off the plane and upped the VDB comp by $100, to $300 IIRC.

GA said the Marx brothers were not sitting in a bar...they just thought they had more time than they really did.

^
AND
more miles/EQMs ^

Is it?

Hotel room = CASH
it comes with food vouchers = CASH
First Class seat = an upgrade for another (presumably better) customer

VDB voucher = funny money, a percentage of which is lost, forfeited, etc., so it doesn't cost the company nearly its face value.

I've seen other airlines try to solicit locals who don't need hotels, because that is great dealing. That saves the company money. If they have to up the voucher to avoid paying for a hotel, that's smart business, because the voucher isn't worth much, but the hotel is.

Further, a voucher is a driver for repeat business. For example, if you're taking a trip, and the lowest fare is $500, but CO is $600, but you have a $200 voucher, well, you may take CO because it's net cheaper after your voucher is applied. So CO gets $400 when it would have otherwise received $0. Had this customer had a $100 voucher, it wouldn't make sense to use a voucher and pay what you can otherwise pay on a competitor without burning the voucher.

Finally, throwing a first class seat at some college student just to save another $100 in voucher is probably net more costly to the company. The upgrade situation out of SFO is particularly tight, so giving away such a seat in order to save a few bucks in voucher (which probably isn't worth even $50 in cash) at the expense of the customer experience of a frequent flyer who spends thousands of dollars flying 75,000 miles a year or more, is very short-sighted.

If First Class were wide open, it'd be a different story. If the bumped pax is Elite, sure. If F were all that were available, fine. But out of all stations, for SFO to be giving away what limited F capacity it has for such a trivial savings in voucher, is likely more costly for the company in the end.

My wife & I have volunteered on a couple flights that were packed with college kids who wouldn't volunteer for $400. Like most flyers they want to reach their destinations.

$150 wouldn't cut it, isn't even worth starting that low.

As for the FC seat in sfo's post they were talking about that offer to someone on the red-eye. I assumed they put the person onto the 1st flight the next day or 1 in the morn, No Elite would have known they missed an Up due to a VDB the previous night. Chances for a walk-up fare in FC for the 1st flight in the morn, Id say from most stations not too likely. Then again it might get that Plat or Gold who didnt get the UP cleared to buy an FC seat outright the next time, they fly instead of rolling the dice.

Im sure CO does as they do at EWR and its a HO-JOs or a Ramada, which they pay very little for, yet I agree its $$$ out of pocket. Meal vouchers will be for breakfast only and again maybe at $8-10.

I fully understand using the CO Monopoly $$ instead, but either way the person will probably feel if they scored it once they will again the next time tehy fly, so most likely they will be back for another round.

Im not saying you dont have Valid pts , You do. Its just I wouldnt use Shameful as the word to describe what CO or its GAs do.

Would you say its Shameful for CO not to sell you a SFO-EWR tkt at the airport for a non-stop flight that is less then 50% full for $100? Or an Intl flight in BF where they want $5000 1 way, isnt my $1000 better then nothing and coach is say $400. No way are they spending anything near the extra $600 in servicing me in that BF seat over the coach seat.

I know people who wouldnt VDB for almost any amount, they are packed up and heading for vacation or whatever and dont want to deal with anything. They think Im nuts for being a Vol even at $500.

everyone has their price, and everyone has their own reasons why x$ is the least they will take.

Im sure the GAs have their own rules for uping the ante and when to do so. If Im winning a Dutch auction on eBay, Im not gonna go ahead and double my bid if Im still the high bidder! I dont see why anyone should be upset if the GA starts and trys to sell it for $100 or $150, instead of say $300-400. I do understand if the person upset is the one w/o a BP for that flight and doesnt want to be IDBed.

Personally if I think theres a chance for a VDB, I simply get myself over to the Gate before the GA opens it for the Flight, and I ask to be placed on the list, I do ask what the VDB will consist of and if its not enough, I can either ask to be take-off the list, or hope that they wont get enough people and therefore be forced to up the ante and I get whatever the highest bid gets up to, this way I know Im included. If a person waits till the ante gets up there well, they just might have waited too long as the GA got his Fill, even at $500 with others taking it.

wanted to add , I know some people that simply asked for a FC seat on the next flight, and couldnt stop talking about it for weeks. It was their 1st time up front. So dont be so surprised at what someone will sell their seat for.

I was on an overbooked IAH-BNA flight a few weeks ago. My ears perked up when the GA started the announcement.... the offer?

A voucher for all of $100, and a seat 4 hours later. A few college age kids volunteered. I wanted to slap them.

Generally-speaking, $300 domestic ($250 if the delay is really short) and $500 international are when I start to listen. Of course the real heartbreakers are when they are really desperate; but you can't miss THAT flight. I still wince at the (NW) $1000 voucher I had to decline a few years ago. Ouch.

Of course they'd never find out, but that's not the point. The fact that the F seat was taken impacted what is presumably a better customer. Sure he or she will never find out, but his or her upgrade rate was impacted negatively as a result. His overall impression of the company was poorer. His experience that day will be less than what it could have otherwise been. All as a direct consequence of this GA's act.

Is that something you want to do to that customer tomorrow morning? Maybe, if you have to (F is the only thing available; the bumped passenger was Elite already upgraded; the bumped pax was in F; that sort of thing).

The problem here is that this GA is electing to save the company, a mere $100 (possibly less based on this GA's statements), not in cash, but in voucher, which is worth even less than that, in a market known to be one of CO's toughest, upgrade-wise, in order to give away an F seat which would probably be worth more to the company in goodwill if awarded to an Elite upgrader tomorrow.


Of course not. They're trying to maintain their pricing. The big picture is that they'd rather charge $5K for BF and let some fly empty when they get the inventory wrong, than have a fire sale on day of departure.

CO is one of the airlines that elects not to even sell day of departure upgrades to F. Why? They don't want the appearance that they're giving away inventory at the last minute just for a few bucks. They believe that long-term, that they're better off following their established processes of revenue sales and Elite upgrades.

Meanwhile, one of CO's own agents decides to reduce her already paltry VDB offerings and give the same seat away, simply to save $50 - $100 in voucher. All while booking people in hotels when perhaps locals or those who don't need hotels would have been available for $100 or $150 in voucher more.

Which is why I find the most troublesome item in this thread is that compensation levels appear to be completely arbitrary. I understand giving employees some discretion. But in this case, it seems some guidance may be warranted.

Front-liners don't always see the big picture. In some cases rules (or rules + discretion) work better than complete discretion.

Channa is absolutely right.

In reality, CO is giving out funny money (sort of like miles but a bit more useful). So next time ma and pa schmo are traveling, they might take CO, even if the ticket is significantly more expensive because they *have* to burn the voucher. But they will still remember how generous CO was with bump compensation and perhaps, if they're into that sort of thing , book more with CO in the future. And if they don't take any trips, oh well, that's a liability that disappears.

Giving some nobody customer an upgrade on a flight that's say A2 while there might be H fare plats on the flight in Y is a bad move. "Even on an H fare I can't get upgraded on SFO-IAH!?". The nobody goes "oooh this is sooo naaahce" but would never shell out for it. That's a bad move.

CO has a well-deserved reputation for lowballing VDBs. For all the hoopla about maintaining the integrity of the premium cabins, another $100 is nothing.

No argument from on this what so ever. Only maybe CO knows full well what is taking place and agrees with it.

I wish all VDBs would be a min of $300,

heck with spending well in excess of 125 nights a yr in Hotels, the last thing to get me is a free Ho-Jos for the night. But to someone who is gonna be visiting and staying with family or friends, and hardly ever gets to stay at a hotel, even a Ho-Jos will give them what to tell people for a few weeks time.

The other week at the car rental counter the couple ahead of me had a compact reserved and were given a mini-van, you should have seen the smile on their faces. You would have sworn they just won the State Lottery all by themselves. Then came my turn, I had an Aveo reserved and turned down the mini-van and Chy M-300. I wanted my Aveo and the 40 mph it gets, gas was $3.30 a gal.The guy was pleading with me to take the Upgrade, and couldnt believe I kept turning him down.

what do car rentals have to do with VDB?

Not a THING except for what people think. Most people would have grabbed the mini-van or 300. I dont care what everyone might have done , I do what I feel is best for me. Thusly someone will grab only a FC Up or only a $100 VDB, they dont care that craz or channa or entropy or perezoso is waiting to grab a $300 VDB and wouldnt budge for a nickel less. They feel its worth overnighting it or waiting 4 hrs for the next flight and are tickled pink to walk away with $100 or just FC.

Any Carrier will give up the least it can. So if CO sees that people are jumping at $100, then $100 will be the opening offer, no matter how DUMB we might feel it is. If on the other hand CO finds its flights are being delayed way too long due to the VDB amounts , it will decide which is more important to the company. If it finds since the offers arent allowed to go beyond say $250 that they are IDBing too many people and ticking off too many people they will in turn change things, maybe the VDB offers or the maybe the # of tkts they are willing to hence oversell a flight by.

Lets not forget capacity is down and passenger count is up. Yet most of us arent getting the Bumps or even hearing of those who got them , like we did say 2 yrs ago. This tells me CO has got their #s pretty down pat and arent overselling the flights the way they used to. So in the rare case where they blew it , they already know they can get away with a low offer. At the same time we are complaining more and more about EUA and no UPs coming thru even at the Gate, CO knows how many Plats didnt come back last yr, Id say most did. So if CO knows they got people addicted to them for whatever reason, it means CO doesnt have to worry so much.

Do they have to give you what the highest bid gets? Can't they just hope you don't learn they offered more to someone else later? Is there a rule protecting you in this case?