Community
Wiki Posts
Search

OnePass Changes with Qantas

 
Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 7:50 am
  #1  
Original Poster
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
25 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York / Hawaii
Programs: UA Global Services, HH Diamond
Posts: 5,206
OnePass Changes with Qantas

As CO Insider and Wx4caster tipped off in another thread, the awards for Qantas are changing, in which reward travel for travel to Down Under will become significantly more expensive.

While the specifics haven't been unveiled yet (and some have speculated the new awards would be 120k,160k, and 220k respectively, up from the 80k,105k,135k levels they're at now for economy/business/first travel), I'm curious what the dynamics are for these changes.

Qantas dumped US (or vice versa) earlier, which also had similar award offerings to CO's.... and I'm not sure if it was a cost issue or availability issue.

With talk of CO's 787's possibly serving Australia, I wonder how much of a threat Qantas perceives carriers other than AA which it partners with.

With their A380's coming online soon, I hope we'll be able to snag an award or two from their new First Class product before they're either priced prohibitively...or dropped entirely as a CO partner.
Weatherboy is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 10:30 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DCA
Programs: Kommissar Giga-Posting Direktor, PWP; Fasano Nouveau Aristocrat; CO Platinum; BD Gold; MR Gold
Posts: 18,733
I do not know about perceived threats by QF, but I do know that the massive increase in redemption levels represents yet another devaluation of OnePass miles.
CO 1E is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 11:18 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Texas Hill Country
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, Hyatt Explorist, UA 1MM
Posts: 2,118
Devaluation.

Where is the corresponding increase in earning opportunity?
afrugal1 is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 11:37 am
  #4  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Clinging to the edifices of a decadent past from the biggest city in America nobody really cares about.
Programs: (ಠ_ಠ)
Posts: 9,077
Originally Posted by afrugal1
Where is the corresponding increase in earning opportunity?
You're looking at this incorrectly.

High value awards subject to capacity controls are not increasing but the airlines are flooding the markets with miles via selling them to the partners (Chase for CO, AMEX for DL, etc.).

Thus there are not only more miles chasing a finite amount of standard awards, and those that were previously out of reach due to high amounts (QF F @ 135,000) are now in reach. This coupled with increasing LF's throughout the industry will pressure the airlines to 'give' away even fewer seats as they can be sold instead.

As peoples' balances are presumably increasing due to partner distributions, the high mileage thresholds that once served as a roadblock is becoming less effective. For QF I don't think this is really an issue as there was no way to redeem a capacity free reward with them from OP miles but for capacity free rewards we see either the rates increasing (as what's happening on CO) or certain flights becoming ineligible for capacity free redemption (as what's happening on DL).

The airlines must be cautious to match reward inventory expense to revenue received from partner mileage sales or else people will no longer pay a premium to the partners for the ability to accrue miles...and then in turn the airlines will watch their profits on mileage sales erode.

One hopes they have the foresight not to kill the goose laying the golden eggs.
J.Edward is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 11:41 am
  #5  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A festering pit; a pustule of a fistula set athwart the miasmic swamps of the armpit of the Gulf of Mexico - a Godforsaken wart upon a dark crevasse of the World. (IAH)
Programs: UA Lifetime Gold, BA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold
Posts: 31,403
I think a nice solution would be to lower reward amounts, if paid with mileage solely earned from flying. This would directly reward loyalty for flying an airline, without diminishing the value of actually using an airline to obtain miles, rather than a credit-card.

This would require differentiating between CC miles and flown RDMs (adding a layer of complexity to existing systems). Flights paid for with CC points could continue to be redeemed at the now-inflated points levels. Flights paid for with "real" EQMs could be redeemable at the more reasonable levels prevailing a few years back.

Not that this will happen, ever. It's nice to dream, though.
Anglo Large Clawed Otter is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 11:48 am
  #6  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: various cities in the USofA: NYC, BWI, IAH, ORD, CVG, NYC
Programs: Former UA 1K, National Exec. Elite
Posts: 5,487
Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter
I think a nice solution would be to lower reward amounts, if paid with mileage solely earned from flying. This would directly reward loyalty for flying an airline, without diminishing the value of actually using an airline to obtain miles, rather than a credit-card.
IMO the ratio of flights flown to reward flights earned should stay the same. This means not raising the redemption rates.

J.Edward is right, why not just make the CC card companies pay CO more for the miles? The 1 mile/dollar spent ratio would have to go away, but it would avoid the silliness of a mile not being a mile.
ralfp is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 11:51 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A festering pit; a pustule of a fistula set athwart the miasmic swamps of the armpit of the Gulf of Mexico - a Godforsaken wart upon a dark crevasse of the World. (IAH)
Programs: UA Lifetime Gold, BA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold
Posts: 31,403
Originally Posted by ralfp
IMO the ratio of flights flown to reward flights earned should stay the same. This means not raising the redemption rates.

J.Edward is right, why not just make the CC card companies pay CO more for the miles? The 1 mile/dollar spent ratio would have to go away, but it would avoid the silliness of a mile not being a mile.
Different methods for achieving the same result (i.e., accurately matching value of miles to the cost of obtaining them). Granted, thinking about it, J.Edward's solution sounds far more practical and efficient.
Anglo Large Clawed Otter is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 12:10 pm
  #8  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: new york, ny, usa
Posts: 13,536
Originally Posted by J.Edward
LF's
english please (EP).
fly co to see the yanks is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2007 | 12:14 pm
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Either way, I am still going to be pissed if the QF F award goes to 220. That would be about a 70% increase.
colpuck is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2007 | 7:40 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SRQ-NYC-DCA
Programs: OnePass Infinite CO MM, PC Charter Lifer SkyMiles GM, MileagePlus
Posts: 1,826
LF in english

Load Factor
CHIC SILBER is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2007 | 7:58 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
5M
100 Countries Visited
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus. Eurobonus Millionaire
Posts: 38,683
Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter
I think a nice solution would be to lower reward amounts, if paid with mileage solely earned from flying. This would directly reward loyalty for flying an airline, without diminishing the value of actually using an airline to obtain miles, rather than a credit-card.
As you note, this will never happen. Airlines make too much money selling the miles.

Regarding the 787, I think that is so far into the future that it doesn't enter the equation yet. The *first* 787 isn't due for a couple of years. It'll take a couple of years past then before flights to Oz can even be considered.
Xyzzy is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2007 | 8:02 pm
  #12  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: HH Silver, MR Plat Prem & LT Plat, Hyatt Plat,SPG Plat, Hertz PC, National EE, UA 1K
Posts: 3,437
Originally Posted by afrugal1
Devaluation.

Where is the corresponding increase in earning opportunity?


Dont think its in the TERRIBLE decision to remove the 500 miles for co.com booking?


CO is making it hard for me to stay a CO*!!
PhillyPhlyer40 is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2007 | 8:03 pm
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
Originally Posted by afrugal1
Where is the corresponding increase in earning opportunity?
Right here:

Kenya Airways, one of Africa's top 3 carriers, and the biggest transcon operator.
UX for extra possibilities for transatlantic redemptions
China Southern Airlines, the biggest airline in Asia in terms of fleet size, and 2nd biggest in terms of pax carried, with 9 (!!!) hubs across China. They also fly to Australia, so more Skyteam options for getting there if you have to. (Joining in November)

Can't get much better than this! Having been Elite+ for 3 years, it's great to see that Skyteam has become useful for travelling pretty much everywhere. A S. American carrier is all we need now.
graraps is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2007 | 8:11 pm
  #14  
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,540
The only problem with CZ is that it is CZ with 777s that put 3-4-3 across in coach. That's before we started on their website. Plus the RDM/EQM earnings on CZ for Onepass members are downright ugly.

Still, it's good to see that things are progressing somewhat. Hopefully CZ will improve its product and we'll see better earnings options in terms of their less-than-full priced tickets.
Lurker1999 is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2007 | 8:39 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in picturesque New England
Programs: WN Rapid Rewards, DL SkyMiles, UA MileagePlus, HiltonHonors
Posts: 765
Originally Posted by J.Edward
...the high mileage thresholds that once served as a roadblock is becoming less effective.
The whole system is becoming a farce. There are more and more miles chasing fewer and fewer seats.

CO can't easily force outside vendors to pay more for FF miles because OnePass miles compete in a market place with other FF miles.

Frankly, the system begs for consumer protection via regulatory oversight that would mandate award transparency (what game theorists call "perfect information"). Airlines should be required, by law, to reveal the number of seats available for reward redemptions on any given flight so that FF fliers can make informed choices in the marketplace about which program is most competitive. As it stands now, consumers are effectively kept in the dark--"imperfect information" almost invariably impedes consumer decision making and works to the seller's advantage. These regulations should prohibit airlines claiming the availability of certain awards unless there is a minimum percentage of these rewards available on all flights (thus preventing the classic "bait and switch" that is the modus operandi of standard awards today)

These changes would faciliate market responses to airlines that offer too many miles chasing too few seats, and it would limit their ability to devalue miles by offering virtually no rewards. With clear and uniform data we could know if, say, AA offers more rewards than CO and the flying public could make its buying decisions accordingly. These changes would make it more difficult for the airlines to gain advantage by flooding the market with miles.

As it stands now, airlines make lots of tantalizing teasers of free trips and upgrades which are effectively false promises that rest upon a lack of information among consumers.
senatorgirth is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.