channa

CLE's biggest problem is not lack of capacity, rather lack of feed.

IAH has a lot of the secondary airports (e.g., ONT, SNA, SAN, OAK, SJC, SMF), while CLE only has a few majors (SFO, LAX, SEA -- sometimes).

So while CLE-TLV may make sense for midwesterners and those in SFO and LAX (if they timed the flights correctly), there are a ton of people close to alternate or secondary airports that would much prefer an IAH connection so they won't have to drive to the region's mega airport.

While us FTers are used to driving to another airport for the best schedule, fare, upgrade opportunity, etc., there are countless others who refuse to fly out of a slightly less convenient airport.

If CO wants to make CLE a serious hub, they need to beef up service between CLE and the secondaries.

craz

a great advantage of IAH over CLE would be Connecting flights to South America. A TLV-IAH-? would be alot better then TLV-EWR-IAH-? There are sizable communities in BOG,EZE,GRU

CO could probably get a sizeable share of those markets, as now its done via connecting in Europe

channa

The United States is not very friendly to connecting passengers. Most European countries allow passengers to transit without customs, many without even a passport check.

The U.S., however, requires that non-U.S. citizens get fingerprinted, photographed, etc., all for a simple transit where they won't even be leaving the airport.

As a result, many international travellers avoid U.S. connections unless they're visiting the U.S.

theblakefish

EWR already has 2 flights, but I'm not sure about IAH. Before I get flamed here....there's just not enough demand from IAH to justify the service based on terminating pax, IMHO. If one can justify the connecting pax, than it would be a great route, but I think that CLE might be a better place to base such a service, based on my estimations. CLE has great service to other TLV-interested cities, such as ORD/MDW, MSP, DTW, etc. Plus, if you add some good conenctions to FLL, MIA, PBI, etc., you might even get more. Of course, IAH has better connections South, but most of the pax on that route would rather go to EWR, IMHO.

Of course, I could be wrong....won't be the first time!

Jakebeth

First of all, please note the icons and that my msg was mostly tongue in cheek.

That said - I wasn't comparing IAH to EWR, but rather CLE. If you're from anywhere in the upper midwest USA and would normally have flown out of or through ORD--and now your LY options are gone--you're perhaps lookiing at flying straight East to EWR (which admittedly sucks in some ways b/c it's EWR) or in the context of this conversation CLE, both of which feel as though you're at least heading in the right direction. Flying straight South for a couple of hours to IAH doesn't feel that different than flying to DEN on UA to make one of their connections going the other way.

NOW - that said, if you're price sensitive, and that IAH connection allows you a decent price, then perhaps you don't care at all. And if you've got to choose between RJs to CLE and mainline to IAH, I think you are going to have higher favor for the IAH route.

I must also give a big not to the point craz makes. I do think and agree that the very point I was trying to make about CLE/EWR works much in IAH's favor as a link to the Southern Hemisphere. It certainly would be popular with my relatives who live in Israel but hail from Guatemala.

Jakebeth

Perhaps this is something about which you're already quite familiar, and if so, no offense intended. Of all the world's populations, though, one of the few that still 'likes' the U.S., and can understand/tolerate some security, however _____________ (you fill in your own judgement) I think Israelis are probably at the bottom of the list of people who would avoid the USA for this reason. I wouldn't typically lump them in with 'many international travellers'. Oh, and you can add to that the fact that so many of them have friends and relatives in NYC and LA anyway.

austinite123

The original post was about an IAH-TLV flight making IAH a connecting point between Latin America and Israel, instead of the European route that those pax now take.

Because of the lack of transit options in the US, and the fact that neither Israel nor Latin American countries are in the Visa Waiver Program, it makes it very burdensome to use the US as a connecting point instead of Europe. It's not just the huge delays with fingerprinting, pictures, and customs, but now you have to go to the US consulate in your home country to get a US visa.

And what if you don't qualify for a US visa? No connecting in the US. Or what if you have the visa but the immigration officer doesn't let you in? You lose your connecting flight and get sent back, it'd be a pain.

The transit areas in other countries make it so that you don't have any of those issues, although you can't leave the small transit area of the airport.

Jakebeth

Actually, the original post was about adding a third daily CO flight between EWR and TLV.

That said, I'm not suggesting that your points are invalid. But while I'm sure there are many Israelis not in this situation, most that I know travel to the USA often, never have any trouble getting US visas, and at least a few that I know of hold those that are valid for 10 years.

NYC2TLV

Correct, due to Israel's high percentage of qualified people for various visas, the US government is thinking of adding Israel to the visa waiver program. People have been bringing up the issue of IAH-TLV as though perhaps there aren't enough passengers from the west coast etc. Well El Al runs direct flights to MIA and LAX so why would Continental let them one up them?

Complete side point, don't know where to ask, but why did Continental start buying their kosher meals at TLV from Hamasbia? They are really gross. I am assuming it is because Hamasbia has stricter kosher certification but come on, there must be a better option.

Jakebeth

I think it's more about whether there's much natural IAH-TLV traffic (or IAH region). LAX in particular has an enormous local population of Israelis. I don't know what the numbers are like in Miami, but I think they're reasonably high. Non-Israeli Jews too for both.

Houston and surrioundings? I'm thinking, not as much.

entropy

re: channa's post ,he's 100% correct. CLE needs more feed to be truly effective as a connection point to EU/TLV: more flights to more places. Hopefully that will come with the 'beefing up' of CLE next year.

In addition, it also needs a bank of 737's to the major destinations such as ORD that are usually served with ERJ's to capture connecting premium pax, this is true LGW/CDG/AMS as well, should they add them.

I agree with regard to the South American connections, IAH is better, with the caveat that the immigration situation sucks. US immigration staff are unpleasant enough to americans, I can't imagine, other than the stories I hear, as to how bad it is for foreigners.

theblakefish

FWIW, the IAH immigration area was featured in USA Today on their revamp of facilities and procedures. I've been through there 2x in the past month, and things have been moving very quickly and efficiently. In fact, waiting for bags seems to be the longest wait in the whole process, IMHO.

Not sure if this is due to something new, or if I caught it on some good days.

austinite123

Yes, the US might be a good place for Israelis to connect at, but not so much for people from Latin America to connect at. The proportion of people from Latin America who qualify for a US visa is much lower, and even if they qualify they still have to trudge themselves to the US consulate to get a visa to visit Israel?

It's much easier to just connect in Europe where you can transit.

MBM3

Entropy and Channa are absolutely correct about beefing up the feed to CLE. It has slowly started with the summer schedule and will ramp up significantly when the new 738s/739s come online next year. Not only will there be more service to/from the West Coast, but I believe you will finally see mainline to regional business destinations such as ORD. IMHO this combination would enable a very successful CLE-TLV route (as well as others to the EU).

Hartmann

Isn't there a "sterile" waiting room at IAH? Is this a possible way for transits to occur?