GUWonder

Most major international airlines that fly to India try to do a c. 2-5 hour turn immediately upon arrival into India. That may mean "same day" turn or it may edge over into the "next day", but just barely by a couple of hours.

My concern is that this will be another one of those routes that will too often have an unscheduled stopover en route (especially when heading back to the US) with all the headaches that follow from that.

So many US airlines are fine letting their planes sit in South America for 6-12 hours but refuse to do the same with India. The result is that doing a day-trip to India is only possible if including European carriers in the itinerary.

theblakefish

I am informed on the unscheduled stops on the 75's, but is this really a problem with the trip's? If so, where do they stop in S. America?

CAL PHL FLYER

@:-) This is Bad News for Air India.

rkkwan

S. America? Are you still talking about BOM-EWR?

DL17 BOM-JFK had stopped at MAN, DUB, SNN, BGR and BOS since it started last fall. Not very frequent, though.

I think the choice of refueling spot may come down more to TIME, rather than location. With a midnight departure and early morning arrival at EWR (if they do it like DEL-EWR), it'll be some pre-dawn hour virtually anywhere they decide to refuel. So, it probably depends on which airport has such facility available readily and cheaply at those hours.

If you just look at the great circle route, the most reasonable spots will be Scandinavia, Iceland, or Eastern Canada.

BTW, all of CO's 772ER have completed their engine upgrades to the GE90-94, with 94,000lb of thrust. Originally, they were -90. DL's RR engines are rated 92,000lb. I don't know too much about this, but CO's birds may now have a higher takeoff weight than DL's, allowing for more fuel loaded.

GUWonder

Air India will still beat CO on price even as CO beats AI on perception of quality. Furthermore, CO is going to have to deal with Jet Airways which will be ahead of CO on the perception of quality aspect for NYC-India O/D.

ijgordon

I don't believe CO has had any problems on its existing routes. But BOM-EWR at 7,807 miles, with a strong headwind is pushing the range limits. BOM is nearly 500 miles further than DEL. And IIRC, DL's 777s use the RR engines, which provide a slightly greater range than the GE engines that CO has.

But I have no idea what S. America has to do with this.

OK, I was a little slow in typing, and I guess my comment on the GE vs. RR engines is dated

Kepler

Today Hindustan Times had an article about CO's new service to BOM.

In addition, it said that AI is planning non-stop services between India and the US as well.

Further, it said that pending government approvals, Jet Airways (9W) will start a BOM-BRU-NYC service, and Kingfisher at some point next year plans to do India-US also...

I think the most to lose out from all this will be the European carriers...

Bernoulli 777

1. I hope they do the inagural 25,000 FF mile reward like they did for NRT and HKG. IIRC, they did not do it for DEL.

2. If China is trans-Pac, India is South of China, why is this considered TATL? I wonder if rewards will be 50,000 miles like LON? Ha Ha

rkkwan

Both eastbound and westbound EWR-DEL/BOM fly over the Atlantic.

Meanwhile, EWR-PEK/HKG fly over the North Pole outbound, and then mostly Pacific (sometimes Arctic) on the eastbound.

theblakefish

Hmmm...maybe an unscheduled fuel stop in Russia? I wonder if there are any acceptable airports past Scandanavia? It would be interesting to see which acceptable airports are located on that route...

supermasterphil

A lot of European Airlines let their a/cs sit in GRU for 6 or more hours or just use it to serve GRU-EZE-GRU and fill the plane for the way back to Europe. LH and LX do so for example

GUWonder

Yes, a lot of international airlines let their planes sit in Brazil, Argentina and Chile for 6+ hours. For whatever reason, they're willing to do that with those South American markets but not with the Indian or Chinese markets.

[LX's flight now goes GRU-SCL. LH's does GRU-EZE. (Since Varig's and Star Alliance's separation, I've had to toy with Brazil a lot. )]

J.Edward

Just out of curiosity, does anyone to MX work on the birds doing the down time or do they literally just sit there?

GUWonder

I don't know about that being done in Brazil, Argentina and Chile for the US carriers, but it's something I had given passing thought to before.

rkkwan

Each night UA and NW leave lots of planes for 7-8 or more hours at various airports in Southeast Asia - BKK, SIN, SGN, TPE, HKG etc. CO also leaves its 777 at HKG for 15 hours.

Flights to Japan and northern China can be done without long layovers.

It's just the nature of the routes. People are used to overnight fligths to and from South America, as that saves them time. It also allows easy connections at either end of the longhaul. That's why airlines do it.