Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Massive Fare Increase?

 
Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 6, 2006 | 7:52 am
  #46  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,892
Originally Posted by iriefrank
...When oil prices were lower, margins (or losses!) were at a place where the competition often wouldn't go along with fare increases announced by one of the majors, and the carrier that implemented the fare hike would often retreat. These days, fare raises are often followed and thus often "stick," and up and up the ladder we go...
So escalating fares are being driven by high oil prices.
Bonehead is offline  
Old May 6, 2006 | 9:31 pm
  #47  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
50 Countries Visited
5M
100 Nights
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United LT-GS, AA LT-Plat, Hyatt LT-Globalist, Hilton LT-Diamond, Marriott LT-Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 15,850
Originally Posted by cova
The increases look like they are mostly due to changing the fare category inventory - not necessarily eliminating the lower fares - just zeroing out the lower fare buckets.

I think you're on to something here. It will be interesting to see if the fare changes stick. The load factor has been pretty good, so it's not surprising to see the airline try to coax more money out of the consumer.
ContinentalFan is offline  
Old May 6, 2006 | 9:37 pm
  #48  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
50 Countries Visited
5M
100 Nights
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United LT-GS, AA LT-Plat, Hyatt LT-Globalist, Hilton LT-Diamond, Marriott LT-Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 15,850
Originally Posted by precision80
i dont think oil has to much to do with it. They have very smart people hedging oil many months in advance.

Actually, in Continental's most recent SEC filings, the carrier reported that it did not have any fuel hedges in place. There are some instruments that protect the carrier against short term fluctuations. The only carrier of any size that is in a financial position to hedge is Southwest Airlines.

As the financial condition of Continental improves, it may well enter into longer term fuel hedging arrangements.
ContinentalFan is offline  
Old May 6, 2006 | 9:40 pm
  #49  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
50 Countries Visited
5M
100 Nights
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United LT-GS, AA LT-Plat, Hyatt LT-Globalist, Hilton LT-Diamond, Marriott LT-Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 15,850
Originally Posted by cova
CO has been quietly up'ing fares $5-10 every week over the past few weeks - likely to cover fuel increases. The fare bucket availability per fare code is dynamic and changes based on demand, CO holding back, testing the market, competition, etc.

Great point. I think that Continental is being very clever here. I have been watching fares from LAX for the past few weeks and have noticed a slight increase; the lower classes disappear. It doesn't seem to affect the load. I think that Continental is going to surprise people with the earnings for Q2 this year.
ContinentalFan is offline  
Old May 7, 2006 | 10:34 am
  #50  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,892
Originally Posted by Bonehead
Yikes...the DEN-EWR trip that I was eyeing 6-14 to 6-18 went from $273+fees yesterday to $394.30+ today.
Now it's back down to $317. These rapid-fire changes sure keep you on your toes, eh?
Bonehead is offline  
Old May 7, 2006 | 10:53 am
  #51  
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,034
Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
Actually, in Continental's most recent SEC filings, the carrier reported that it did not have any fuel hedges in place.
That's weird, it contradicts this source which was a surprise to me:

Excite money

"The company also said that about 17% of its fuel needs are hedged at $63.50 a barrel."

And a question: Does the following mean that they predict the stock to increase to $40?

"Prudential Equity Group kept a $40 price target on the stock and an overweight rating. "Revenues and expenses, ex-items, were generally in-line with our expectations," wrote Prudential analyst Bob McAdoo in a research note."

Last edited by pptp; May 7, 2006 at 11:12 am
pptp is offline  
Old May 7, 2006 | 12:29 pm
  #52  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
50 Countries Visited
5M
100 Nights
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United LT-GS, AA LT-Plat, Hyatt LT-Globalist, Hilton LT-Diamond, Marriott LT-Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 15,850
Originally Posted by pptp
That's weird, it contradicts this source which was a surprise to me:

Excite money

"The company also said that about 17% of its fuel needs are hedged at $63.50 a barrel."

And a question: Does the following mean that they predict the stock to increase to $40?

"Prudential Equity Group kept a $40 price target on the stock and an overweight rating. "Revenues and expenses, ex-items, were generally in-line with our expectations," wrote Prudential analyst Bob McAdoo in a research note."

Continental reports that it has short term instruments to lock in fuel prices, but it does make a point that it doesn't have hedging--the traditional multi-period hedging. Southwest is probably the only carrier that has hedged for some time. Interestingly, Southwest only recently started hedging: the carrier didn't in the early 90's. The majors are subject vagaries of the oil market. Southwest locked in about 70 to 80% of its 2005 fuel needs based on oil at $25 - $27 a barrel; it got fuel based on a $30 to $38 through 2009; as of its last 10-K filing, Continental didn't have such hedging. Hedging gives Southwest a competitive advantage over the legacy carriers. If I were in charge of Southwest, I would try to secure gates in EWR ASAP to take advantage of this position. Both NJ and GA are probably the two largest remaining markets not directly served by this carrier. I am sure that both DL and CO recognize that it's only a matter of time before Southwest invades their hub. EWR will probably be first, once the carrier gets over its issues with the NY ATC. The legacy carriers are stuck with high fuel costs for now.
ContinentalFan is offline  
Old May 7, 2006 | 2:27 pm
  #53  
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,034
BTW, this is Southwest's hedging schedule (from their annual report).

'05 86% @ $26
'06 65% @ $32
'07 45% @ $31
'08 30% @ $33
'09 25% @ $35

Briiliant gamble that paid off.
pptp is offline  
Old May 7, 2006 | 2:44 pm
  #54  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
50 Countries Visited
5M
100 Nights
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United LT-GS, AA LT-Plat, Hyatt LT-Globalist, Hilton LT-Diamond, Marriott LT-Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 15,850
Originally Posted by pptp
BTW, this is Southwest's hedging schedule (from their annual report).

'05 86% @ $26
'06 65% @ $32
'07 45% @ $31
'08 30% @ $33
'09 25% @ $35

Briiliant gamble that paid off.

Thanks for the information; Southwest is definitely in good shape. They did assume a risk, but it looks like it will pay off for them. Actually, it's probably not that much of a 'real' risk. Oil was artificially depressed in late 90's/early 00's: Southwest did a very smart thing.

It's going to be interesting to see their fare strategy as they become more and more exposed to the market price of fuel. I don't see that they will have a choice put to start passing along the fuel increase to consumers. It's hard to know what will happen--if consumers will accept an increase in price and continue flying unfettered. Whatever happens, I do expect to see Southwest make an end run at EWR in the next six to 24 months--either directly or indirectly.
ContinentalFan is offline  
Old May 7, 2006 | 3:09 pm
  #55  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,150
Spent some time on Dream Maps yesterday and again today. Couldnt find CO anywhere in range from what the others were charging.

Even worse most of the time DM didnt even have a listing for CO what so ever. Good thing I got most of my miles for requalifying for Plat under my belt in Jan & Feb. looks like JetBlue will be getting some of my biz along with AirTrans or AA.

If it stays like this then ill probably not be Plat in '08.
craz is offline  
Old May 7, 2006 | 10:59 pm
  #56  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,093
Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
It's hard to know what will happen--if consumers will accept an increase in price and continue flying unfettered.
That's the sticky part about air travel. A lot of it is discretionary -- not just leisure, some business too, so when prices rise, we lose some of that, which is why demand needs to be watched closely.

Leisure travellers can bag a vacation if fares are too high, or go elsewhere, or drive somewhere local (an hour or two in the car is cheaper than any air travel x 4 pax).

Similarly, some biz trips have to happen, and they will; others you can be on the fence about it (e.g., it would be nice to meet with that client in person, or it would be nice to attend that convention), and the fare could swing it one way or another.

So every price increase, regardless of cause, will have a somewhat reduced demand. The question is whether remaining demand at increased price levels will be net advantageous.
channa is offline  
Old May 10, 2006 | 4:33 am
  #57  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NJ
Programs: MM - GOLD, HH, Mariott
Posts: 291
Looks like the fares are creeping back down at least for my every other week route of EWR - ORD - EWR. At the start of the week, cheapest fares for July and Aug was 282 + tax and yesterday they went to 252+ and today they are 232+. In Sept they went back down to 182+ which is 5 more then when they started raising them. Anyone else notice?
Spinky is offline  
Old May 10, 2006 | 6:31 am
  #58  
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DCA
Programs: AA ExPlat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 392
HUGE jump, and small drop.

Originally Posted by bocastephen
This morning, my FareCompare yahoo widget displayed my list of destinations and I was startled by what seemed like huge fare increases on Continental to a good number of airports by an average of $70 r/t - including what I would characterize as massive or whopping increases to EWR and all DC regional airports. A couple spots I watch in California went up by about $30.

Did anyone else notice substantial increases from their home airport to select destinations?
Around that date, DCA-CLE jumped from $178 to $358, where it's stayed. It was $148 earlier in the spring, and I put off buying tickets. As it crept up, I finally said ok, better get them now. Lucky I did!

Just overnight though, the fare I was looking for DCA-LGW and then EDI-DCA dropped $60...of course, I have to go on a 752 instead of a 777. Oh well.
Mile-Hor is offline  
Old May 10, 2006 | 6:57 am
  #59  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,150
Im wondering is the fare going up or are the fare basis available changing.

Either way it will cost more for the tkt , the difference being that CO instead of raising the fare of say a "T" simply elimates any "T" fare from being sold so that will mean that say an "N" is now the cheapest you can buy but it costs more then the "T".

I say this cause I saw that for a tkt for an Intl trip I have purchased awhile ago,had "O" as the lowest and that was $650 more than I paid and the flight is far from full and the other week had U & I available for sale. I know they could have sold them out but this happened as Oil was hitting the $75 area, I figured that CO instead of doing a price increase that they would have to announce , simply did away with some of the lower fares so in effect they did do a price increase and didnt have to say anything since the 'fare basis' itself didnt cost any more , it simply wasnt available any longer. So they in effect did do a price increase
craz is offline  
Old May 10, 2006 | 10:41 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1
quick question....

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct area... however I wanted to travel from ewr to mke this Friday and return on Monday... last minute thing... unfortunately the ticket is over $600. There are however 10 seats available according to the seating chart. Can I just show up to the airport on Friday and get a better deal? I've never done that before and am not sure how it works.... If anyone has any suggestions, thank you in advance for all your help!
fthereicome is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.