I was browsing BOS-SFO to take a trip to visit some friends in SF, and I noticed something kind of alarming. Yes, I know the perpectual A9F0 problem, BUT, I looked across TWO MONTHS, and not a single EWR-SFO flight had ANY F seats.

I called up CO, and they said that they might not have put them in the computer yet... (uhh huh). I told them I know that E class is impossible to find, but that the no F thing was unusual. She kinda said "oh, you noticed that.... (about the E seats..)"

Has anyone else seen a dearth of F on routes you fly?

I have noticed zero F availability on the EWR-SFO/SFO-EWR sectors for a while now, and I have checked a few dozen dates, including both weekdays and weekends.

While I have noticed a growing deficit on EWR-West coast trans-cons, I am usually able to find a least one flight a day (sometimes not) with availability to/from SAN, LAX, SNA, SJC, PDX and SEA.

West coast to IAH does not seem to be much of a problem (including SFO), but I have been having an increasingly difficult time finding IAH-EWR F seats, especially (obviously) on Sundays.

My sample, of course, is not scientific, but it does represent a growing trend.

Be careful!

The apologists will accuse you of lying!

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 04-13-2003).]

By gosh, you're right (about the F0 part, not the lying part)!

What's the impact? As PM on Delta I could confirm an upgrade 360 days in advance (when paying a mid-level discount fare or higher). Now they've taken that away from me, so I've been flying AA. I haven't taken a close look at CO because I'm not willing to pay their hub premium at EWR.

As I understand it, unless you're buying a full-fare Y, CO Elites don't clear until 5/3/1 days out anyway (and it's been that way for a while). Unless A-code availability dries up, you're going to be in line for an upgrade until 5/3/1 at the earliest, when they (theoretically) clear.

From the posts I've read here, unless you're Plat you're a longshot for transcon, hub to hub is difficult unless you're on the widebodies, and everything else is pretty decent (my standard would be 95% for Plat, 75% for Gold, 50% for Silver).

Are my standards for decency not met, or too low? Does CO hold a lot of A-class sales? Is there a lot of domestic "employee class?" In other words, more than a week ahead of travel, what does A9F0 it mean to a CO elite?

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...or passengers swim.

AS a silver I'd never get UG'd on EWR-SFO.
Especially not on CO41(752 int'l config).

I use miles/certs for those, but on those, you still need F availability. As a student I couldn't afford Y to get the elite Y->A.

I had no trouble a month ago getting EWR-LAX in F for a flight at the end of may.
Perhaps they are changing things...

I could understand keeping in reserve a bunch of seats, but to have absolutely NO availability over several weeks on a route is just ridiculous.

NJDavid: No continental apologist could argue with that much lack of availability. I found it particularly amusing that the agent remarked about me noticing no E availability.

I sent an email to wecouldcareless, we'll see what they say.

I will say, however, that CO has always been pretty good to me. I almost always fly Q/T, and have sat in back zero times out of 9. Two of those were in ERJs, but I have always been able to get 1A and cool FA's.



[This message has been edited by entropy (edited 04-13-2003).]

It means that CO is going to get a lot of us to just snag a connection to the Pac NW (if we're using miles for ups/FC tix) instead of the nonstop. It's annoying to be on the waitlist for FC - some would rather take the sure thing, even if it means a connection in Houston. Presumably, they want us makin' the connections and staying off of the sweet transcons with their big time A fares.

It's probably a good business decision on CO's part, but it really *looks* bad. It wouldn't kill 'em to put a couple of F seats out every day to SFO.

Until recently, I usually found the best F availability on the early morning transcons, ex-EWR or the opposite direction. Morning flights are a little cheaper to operate (landing fees, congestion), cater, and generally there are more low-fare pax on these flights as opposed to later flights after business hours.

These days, as a Plat, more often than not I can get the EUA on transcons, but every now and then I'll blow the 10k for the 757BF.

I used to do EWR-LAX pretty frequently, back when I was Bronze/Silver and Gold, and for upgrades, I almost always was able to get upgrade seats on the early morning LAX-EWR, I believe it's 1403 today. I never used to worry about the outbound, as I would take the DC-10 flight and usually be able to snag a BF seat. I miss those widebody transcons, they used to be almost a sure thing for an upgrade, especially when they ran the 38/204 config. Now, it's rare when you can even get a 24-seat 757 Domestic, and they aren't even that good!

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Dave

entropy,

Great name! Is your better half named enthalpy?

First in Class, on a tangent

IT does seem that CO is trying to get more people buying A/Y, I just don't know who is silly/careless/wasteful enough to do it.

I wouldn't MIND connecting in IAH that much, but houston's so humid, even in the airport.

Actually, on my last few flights, FLL-EWR in both a 753 and 752BF, I came to the realization that I think many of us have noticed. Domestic First ain't that great. Its 'nice'. But it isn't 'great'. Why do we spend the effort? because Y just SUCKS, Y is intolerable. F is livable. That's why B6 (and god, even maybe song?) are going to do better and better, because they have a livable Y product. After having experienced 752BF's on transcons, I have been very disappointed in the normal F service.

So, if at all possible, I would like to get a transcon, because the service is indeed GREAT.


and on the tangent, no, Enthalpy isn't a pal of mine, I'm the information theoretic entropy. Because the attached email address is [mostly] anonymous, there is a lack of information about me, hence the entropy. If I was into thermodynamics, then enthalpy and I would be attached at the hip!

I concur. It is completley about the seat for me because the food certainly is not worth it, and I don't drink alcohol.(especially if you are talking about burning 10,000 miles one-way).

May CO NEVER offer alot of F/E availability on the cross-country routes. The transcons are CO's domestic bread-and-butter; many passengers actually BUY First Class (or at least full Y) on EWR-SFO/LAX/SEA/etc. Hence, it makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER for CO to give away alot of F seats on transcons when they can be sold for 10x the cheapest excursion fare.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

perhaps people WILL pay for SOME, but not all of those seats.
But its never been this bad as far as I recall.

For me it would be a little easier to fly AA or UA BOS-SFO, nonstop. I have the miles to UG on AA too... its tempting, especially if I do a challenge.

There is the additional possibility that with the recent capacity reductions, their Yield management people haven't allocated F seats, I'm hoping that is the case. We'll see in the next few weeks.

Or there's the possibility that the premium capacity on transcon routes has been right-sized to the point that upgrades and awards are unnecessary...

But in entropy's case, his allegiance to CO is very dimished. If there is NO HOPE of upgrading at the time of the sale, in his case, it will probably go to AA.

I think CO should try to make a profit, and I'd say when you take a 3 plane transcon route and reduce it to one, there should be less "F" seats available... but zeroing out the flight for months... come on!

Now we are getting back to the "fly the airline who gets me there the cheapest" scenerio. NW doesnt seem to have this problem, I've gotten upgraded on ALL my transcons this year, including award flights... so it can be done, just not at CO.

This may be an ignorant question, since I don't fly NW all that much, but what transcons does NW fly?