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Old Jun 23, 2005 | 9:05 pm
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Smaller First Classes

I have been flying a lot of EWR-BOS lately and noticed that all of the FC is now 6 seats, no more 10's. I thought it was fine for short flights but I noticed that on my flight to DFW from EWR on Sunday and return on Tuesday it is the same, 6 seats. There is one available. How does anyone get upgrades anymore?
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Old Jun 23, 2005 | 9:15 pm
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Originally Posted by TheMan
I have been flying a lot of EWR-BOS lately and noticed that all of the FC is now 6 seats, no more 10's. I thought it was fine for short flights but I noticed that on my flight to DFW from EWR on Sunday and return on Tuesday it is the same, 6 seats. There is one available. How does anyone get upgrades anymore?
This is the 735, and there are lots of discussion on this. CO spun the FC reduction as not a big deal, since the 735 primarily serves shorter routes.

But you're right. Not only do we see it on EWR-DFW (1,382 miles), we also see it on:

EWR-IAH = 1,414 miles
IAH-DCA = 1,208
IAH-SNA = 1,346
IAH-SFO = 1,635 miles (4 hours!!)

Many of these are also heavy business routes which sell the F seats. And while nobody really cares about F on DFW-IAH, BOS-EWR, or DCA-EWR, I wonder if they're shooting themselves in the foot with some of these longer routes.
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Old Jun 23, 2005 | 9:54 pm
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I was on a 735 two days ago and chuckled when the recording used to prepare the cabin for landing included "...return your foot rests and video monitors to their original position..."
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 6:16 am
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Originally Posted by TheMan
I have been flying a lot of EWR-BOS lately and noticed that all of the FC is now 6 seats, no more 10's. I thought it was fine for short flights but I noticed that on my flight to DFW from EWR on Sunday and return on Tuesday it is the same, 6 seats. There is one available. How does anyone get upgrades anymore?
not that its much, but in the next few months this aircraft will go from 6 to 8 seats.

i actually like the quaintness of small FC cabins, but the 735 just feels really akward to me. do not like it.
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 7:10 am
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Originally Posted by channa
But you're right. Not only do we see it on EWR-DFW (1,382 miles), we also see it on:

EWR-IAH = 1,414 miles
IAH-DCA = 1,208
IAH-SNA = 1,346
IAH-SFO = 1,635 miles (4 hours!!)

Many of these are also heavy business routes which sell the F seats. And while nobody really cares about F on DFW-IAH, BOS-EWR, or DCA-EWR, I wonder if they're shooting themselves in the foot with some of these longer routes.
Lest we forget IAH-BDL = 1,507

I was actually thinking.....what if CO pulled the closet and dropped the EF seats in and see how that does BEFORE deciding to take out the last row of F? Then they could put out a press release "Continental adds 20% more capacity on its 737-500's".

Last edited by Duhey2; Jun 24, 2005 at 7:12 am
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 7:10 am
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What are they going to do, remove the clothing closet?
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 7:13 am
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Originally Posted by TheMan
What are they going to do, remove the clothing closet?
Moving it or making it smaller. The 735 is going from 10 to 6 to 8 in F.
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 8:00 am
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Originally Posted by TheMan
What are they going to do, remove the clothing closet?

AA's MD80's are removing the coat closet & adding more F seats. The bulkhead has a hook for hangars/ coats.

It works, not the most visually appealing but, its more F seats!
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 8:08 am
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Originally Posted by channa
This is the 735, and there are lots of discussion on this. CO spun the FC reduction as not a big deal, since the 735 primarily serves shorter routes.

But you're right. Not only do we see it on EWR-DFW (1,382 miles), we also see it on:

EWR-IAH = 1,414 miles
IAH-DCA = 1,208
IAH-SNA = 1,346
IAH-SFO = 1,635 miles (4 hours!!)

Many of these are also heavy business routes which sell the F seats. And while nobody really cares about F on DFW-IAH, BOS-EWR, or DCA-EWR, I wonder if they're shooting themselves in the foot with some of these longer routes.
Channa:

Don't forget the EWR-ATL route. I really don't understand how that qualifies as a "leisure route" since I see the same business travellers on the flight every time I fly it!
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 8:44 am
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Originally Posted by Wingtipflyer1
AA's MD80's are removing the coat closet & adding more F seats. The bulkhead has a hook for hangars/ coats.
I think HP did/does this -- haven't flown them since their CO-alliance went kaput.

It works, not the most visually appealing but, its more F seats!
But they're also squeezing them in. I think pitch on the port side is down to 36-37".
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 8:50 am
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IAH-YYC - 1747 miles.
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 8:54 am
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Originally Posted by Wingtipflyer1
AA's MD80's are removing the coat closet & adding more F seats. The bulkhead has a hook for hangars/ coats...
There was a post on a.net that CO was also changing the galley to make space with the trade off being that it would become cold (as in no hot meals). IIRC, the 727s for sometime operated as such - I'm just not old enough to remember that far back

Last edited by Xyzzy; Jun 27, 2005 at 9:00 am Reason: Fix UBB code
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 8:57 am
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Damage to CO Reputation

Elite upgrade annoyance aside, I think the reduced first class cabin is harming the equity of premium service that CO has/had.

When I'm sitting in F in these 737's, you hear endless comments from passengers as they board in disbelief of the tiny cabin. "CO must be having problems", "ohh this must be part of their cutbacks because they're going broke", "the cabin is gone, so I guess meals are going next", "no need to save miles for a 1st class ticket on this carrier", "now I see why they give away elite upgrades, there's not much to this cabin", "I would never ever pay for a first class ticket anywhere this airline flies if the cabins are this tiny" are the types of remarks you hear from passengers heading to the back.

Whether what they're saying is true or not, the fact that they leave the CO flight with an impression that's more negative when they first board must have a long-term bad impact for CO.
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 9:05 am
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To tell the truth, I personally feel that EVEN on the short routes, ie: EWR-BOS, when they are charging $570 for a RT THEY SHOULD HAVE LARGER 1st Class. That is an exorbitant price for a 1/2 hr flight that NORMALLY turns into an hour or more on the tarmac at BOS. Last week it was a 4.5 hr flight. Good thing I had a 1st class seat.
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Old Jun 24, 2005 | 9:08 am
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the 753 re-fit which was billed as being immutably permanent was changed back to something more sensible. Hopefully they will get the point here as well.

Perhaps when they take out the galley, they will add back the third row, for 12 seats
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