No, date of ticket purchase is now trumped by fare basis. The EUA/yield management algorithm is taking into account both historical fare-basis bookings as well as current fare-basis bookings (i.e., for an upcoming flight on a given day/time). As would be expected, the release of seats into the F bucket from A/D is done on the basis of this historical booking data and current reservations. But now, wih greater stringency, EUA is releasing *only enough* inventory into F at each upgrade window (5/3/1 days prior to departure) into which only the higher fare-basis reservations will be upgraded, e.g., 6 plats on day 5, 3 of whom on K fare, 2 on Q, 1 on T. Yield management/EUA spots this, so only three seats open up in F. The three on K get the EUA; the 3 on T/Q are skipped. Day 3: Same thing, but for Gold - and the lower fare basis Plats from before (in addition to the lower fare Golds) are nixed out of the running. And so on. Of course, this is the general paradigm, so specific routes and days of the week will throw in different variables. Still, overall, the machination of EUA is different from before.

What's more, as has been mentioned previously and in other threads, the at-airport upgrade standby list doesn't work reliably anymore. I was "number one on the standby list" for upgrades on the day of travel the other day on a 5-segment itinerary, none of which were EUA'd (one segment was on a junglejet). Watched AOW classavailability (BTW, it's so much easier than ITN I find), saw the F bucket go live, went over to the P-Club desk to get my upgraded boarding pass, and you know what? The F inventory was still sitting there, my original reservation un-upgraded, and *several* club agents hoarded around to observe this new twist, chattering about how I should have been automatically upgraded, this is weird, why is inventory still holding out releasing upgrade seats as if they're going to sell an hour before the flight all of the first class seats they're holding back, this wasn't the way it used to be, somebody else could have just slipped in there and got the upgrades if I hadn't come over (*bingo* - CO's own is saying this - HELLO HOUSTON), and even, get this, "why would anyone want to fly us anymore if they couldn't get the upgrades like they were promised?"

With all due respect, folks, the "couldn't be's!" and the "hmmm, I'm skeptical, that's not what I saw," sound a lot to me like rationalization and denial of a new reality that showed up sometime recently. Can we all say, "cognitive dissonance?"

I told myself I would stick it out on CO after HOKEY I in anticipation of seeing what HOKEY II was going to be like. But this new macro under which EUA runs is the hair that breaks the camel's back for me. Definitely not the change I was anticipating.

[This message has been edited by Beef or Chicken? (edited 03-16-2002).]

Pardon my ignorance on this issue, but it is relevant to my wife's newly earned status as a Gold member, but would not your calling the O/P Elite line "fix" matters if you are skipped by the EUA?

After all, the rules booklet for the Elite flyer indicates that if a seat is un-filled, a O/P elite will be upgraded, apparently, regardless of fare basis. At least that is what I thought it said.

Moreover, I do not contend that every bad outcome can be remedied by some form of litigation, but if CO advertised, and continues to advertise, that upgrades will be provided to those in a certain category regardless of the fare tix they had purchased, and then fails to honor that commitment, it seems to me that a potential class action may be plausible, as I would think that there are a large number of those who have attained at least some Elite status.

Just my 2 cents.


My wife usually travels on full fare Y class, and therefore, she can immediately have her seat upgraded to First Class per the O/P rules.

One more thing - and this is the last I will write about the subject (been talking the talk on being fed up, going to other airlines, etc., now it's time just to walk the walk).

The new EUA penalizes loyal customers like me who are able to plan air travel weeks, sometimes months, in advance, for choosing to fly Continental and in so doing, usually are able to buy T/Q fares. As a principal of my firm, I am able to call many of the shots on what's going on, where, and when, so I have greater flexibility to plan ahead and stick to it. More on this later.

When booking relatively far in advance, there is almost always a great number of competitors from which to choose. My practice has been to just go CO, even if CO's fares are slightly higher (10% is my threshold), and even if the schedule is not as convenient (just as well, additional miles/segments).

Before recently, I was almost assured of a call-in/EUA upgrade. Made me feel good about flying CO, they kept getting my business.

Now, however, CO has taken away the incentive for me to fly them anymore at all. I would not pay anything more than the lowest fare available at the time of booking any more than CO itself would pay one its own vendors X% more for something that is listing for a given price. The carrot of a free domestic upgrade does not justify violating the principle of spending no more than the fair price offered for a service. Last time I looked, that's not what "free" meant.

I mentioned that I am a principal of my firm. Well, I've just taken CO off my company's travel list. Though one of us individually may come far short of providing the revenue that a higher-fare customer may fork over to CO, the aggregate revenue that all of my company's travel done in a year should not be overlooked. And to think that I encouraged many of my co-workers to wait it out, let's see what happens later this year... I guess to be a business owner, you have to be somewhat masochistic to begin with.

CO, you've earned yourself the loss of our business, which consists of a healthy travel budget in the high 6-digit dollar figure that actually increased last year and even after 9-11, as well as our goodwill in recommending you to our clients and vendors. To put it in the words of a colleague, you're missing the forest for its trees.

[This message has been edited by Beef or Chicken? (edited 03-16-2002).]

Seems like your wife will not have to suffer at the hands of EUA shenanigans. In any case, calling the "Elite" line would regrettably do nothing as OP agents are either unwilling or unauthorized (or both) to do upgrades manually, in stark contrast to NW where EUA co-exists (quite well in my experience) with manual intervention when appropriate.

I have been top tier on this airline since the programs began, and nobody in the East ever heard of the airline. Back then, you got free headsets and they carved your dinner at your seat. Those days are gone. The airline was run in the ground, and miraculously revived into one of the best products out there. The astute management that accomplished that also knows that in this business, yields are everything. As a marketing tool, they have floated too much elite metal. They can't possibly do what they hint is possible in their marketing, and they have obviously figured out a way to further make sure that some guy with status (and I use the word advisedly) but no yield (read, cheap ticket) doesn't put a guy with a 1500 dollar ticket in a middle seat in row 32. We don't like it, but they aren't really wrong, and I am afraid others will emulate this. I value my Platinum status, but I spend more time with other carriers who are less concerned with this kind of yield management. The real culprit is these mindless first class fares. If they would make them reasonable, as opposed to numbers that cause you to have to decide whether you should buy the ticket or use the money to build a new garage, some of us might actually pay for it. In the meantime, quit voting them the Freddie, and they might actually slow this process down a little.

Your analysis isn't consistent with my experience at all. EUA has been broken for me, regardless of fare class purchased.

Additionally, what would be the motivation to hold out seats on the day of departure? I've seen A9F0 at 1am on a 6am departure. If the system is as sophisticated as you've indicated, it would certainly be capable of giving away a few seats to Platinum and Gold T/Qs to save them from having to get to the airport early to fight the silvers for seats.

Once you're checked in, you will not be automatically upgraded by EUA or anything anymore. Either you will need to have someone manually grab a seat from F for you or wait until the GA clears the F upgrade standby list before push-back.

This has been a long-time bug that is part of the airport "free for all." This would generally be fixed by the 3h EUA system.

Posted by DBaker: (sorry quote feature wouldn't pull this part of quote)..
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Your analysis isn't consistent with my experience at all. EUA has been broken for me, regardless of fare class purchased.
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DBaker,

I am curious about your purchase habits. Are you generally an early or late purchaser, and on what fares? Have you noticed any difference with flights after about Mar.1?? Mr Fish was constantly trumped on EUA on his high, last minute fares by earlier booking Plats on lower fares (less than 40% success in 2001 and early 2002). Suddenly, he is being EUA'd left and right. Received another EUA yesterday (at Gold window), now running 100%.. (His CO flights in the last week or so are minimal, so this could just be a coincidence). But I am convinced that something has changed recently.

I still cannot believe that, even if just enough F are released at the Plat window for high-fare Plats, the remaining Plats wouldn't be first in line at te Gold window. It would be very interesting if a low-fare Plat and a high-fare Gold on this board were booked on the same flight. I would love to see how it unfolded in that case...

Robin

This is something CO needs to explain but my guess is that they do not want to lose any last minute revenue walk-ins, standbys, transfers from cancelled or delayed flights, etc., that have either paid FC or paid a higher fare in Y. They stand to lose more if high fare payers get frustrated without upgrades than low fare payers (the "riff-raff") do.

If you wanted to encourage everyone including Silvers to pay higher fares to get an upgrade, you wowuld reward Silver high fares with the upgrade over Plat and Gold "riff-raff".

The above is perfectly consistent with yield management. Would you rather lose business from people that historically pay low fares or lose business from those that pay high fares?

What is not clear is if this change is happening (there appears to be some anecdotal evidence for this), are they going to handle it by an explicit policy change or continue to market "smoke and mirrors" hoping that they will not lose either of the above two groups? I am not sure they anticipated the ITN use to monitor them.

Beef or Chicken, I certainly hope that you gave CO written notification of your decision to take them off of your travel list.

Zip, I most assuredly have, through conversation, writing, and telephone calls. I do have the feeling, though, that pretty soon I will have some CO reps getting back in touch with all sorts of enticements. In the state of mind I am now, I can already hear myself telling them, "Nothing personal against you, but you tell whoever told you to bring this to stick it in a place where it might be of some use."

We stuck it out with CO through thick and thin, and now that times are good for them they seem to be forgetting those very customers who were instrumental in helping them to get to today. So screw me for running a business that emphasizes frugality and practicality, so much so that we grow when the rest of the economy shrinks, we thrive even after catastrophe strikes, and we give raises and merit bonuses when employess at other companies are getting laid off. F*ck you very much, CO.

That being said, I'm not denigrating CO for making a business decision. We all do this every day. But the way their business decision impacts my co-workers and me require me to make a business decision of my own. Isn't life grand?

I do hope and encourage those of you who are getting shafted to reciprocate CO's "looking out for #1" by taking action and switching your allegiance. Talk is cheap. Actions count.

[This message has been edited by Beef or Chicken? (edited 03-16-2002).]

This was supposed to be a part of the 3hr EUA system. It is not apparent that it is yet functional.

B or C,was just thinking of the "glory years" of CO, probably '98-'99. I became a OP member (not elite) during CO Lite! So their improvements really struck a cord during the late '90s. So sad, especially when I feel attacked whenever I call WECARE2. Anyway, glad you documented your decision with CO.

This is highly speculative. There is no evidence to suggest that historical booking data is a factor in EUA and I can assure you that CO's CRS/yield management systems are not sophisticated enough to operate in this manner.

It positively did not work for me this week... checked-in early for a connecting flight... went from A5 F0 to A0 F0 while I was in the air.

OK. Syllogism time.

EUA is based on yield management which is based on historical data.

Therefore, EUA is based on historical data.

I will not name names, but will say this is *not* speculative. Go after my misapplication of logical constructs, my poor diction, semantics, etc., all you want. (You can also do the same for rationalizing not going to another airline, and learning their new system, the ropes there, learning curve all over again, etc. But once I get through these remaining trips in coach on CO I'll be yucking it upstairs on a UA 747 for as much as I'd have paid CO to sit in coach on the same trip).

Guys, six to one, half-a-dozen to the other... the underlying changes and their effect are real.

If these changes work in your favor, all the more power to you.

[This message has been edited by Beef or Chicken? (edited 03-16-2002).]