Ok like what else is new. I finally come face to face with the injustice of this policy today.
I am flying the redeye from EWR-LGW and purchased a K fare on Thursday in order to be able to upgrade with miles.
The upgrade went through for the return segment (Nov 10th) but the departure (Nov 4th) didn't because of the 3 day rule.

Checked in and tried to talk my way into Business First. The agent said there were 9 revenue seats still unsold. Whats the chance 9 people are going to show up 1 hour before an international flight and snap up the seats. Why won't they release the seats to people already on the flight that are willing to use miles.

I know the idea here is for Continental to make money and not give up a possible revenue generating seat and give it to an upgrade. But come on, 9 seats an hour before the flight? I talked to the reward & elite lines and they said "we would rather the seats go empty than give them to an elite for an upgrade".
Now I fully understand what all the furor is about. You try to remain loyal and when you finally ask for a little something back, BOOM. My 2 cents. Let the rants begin. LOL

That TOTALLY sucks. There is NO REASON for you not to get upgraded on a flight like that. They got their HoKeY money, you were using miles, so it should not have been a big deal. You are actually being a lot nicer than I would be under the situation. I would cut up my elite card and mail it to Gordon, telling him where to stick CO. Of course, I would transfer my elite status to another airline first.
Things like this are what make many of us feel CO is doing a full circle...Worst to First to Worst.

On a nicer note..my 200th post, I am so proud (wiping tears from eyes with hankie). SO when do I get my FlyerTalk Silver Elite card?


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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!

No rant necessary, anyone who flies internationally on CO (and would prefer to upgrade) knows what an awful, awful thing HoKeY is. It stinks!

Just one little quibble-- the 3-day rule pre-dates HoKeY by a some time and in your story, the 3-day rule is the main culprit.

Additionally, there is no "talking your way into BF" notwithstanding one having a K-fare, and that too has not changed as a result of HoKeY.

Believe me, as far as I'm concerned CO can cram the 3-day rule into the same crevice as HoKeY, but in fairness, there was never a chance that you would be able to upgrade for a flight today that was purchased Thursday.

In fact, I don't know which flight you are referring to as the "redeye" but for tonights flights, Flight 28 currently shows:

J9 D9 Z9 Y9 H9 K9 B9 V9 Q9 T9

Assuming that is accurate, I would tend to believe that had you booked this flight Wednesday-- instead of Thursday, you'd be sitting in BF tonight for the same price.

Remember, I'm on your side, just sorting out the various CO BF upgrade enhancements.

Forgot to mention ONE more thing. I am not only traveling on business I am doing two mileage runs at the same time.
Here is my itienery
CO Flt 28 EWR-LGW Sat 7:45pm-7:45am
CO Flt 29 LGW-EWR Sun 11:00am-2:00pm
CO Flt 28 EWR-LGW Sun 7:45pm-7:45am
CO Flt 29 LGW-EWR Fri (9th) 11:00am-2:00pm
CO Flt 28 EWR-LGW Sat (10th) 7:45pm-7:45am
CO Flt 29 LGW-EWR Sat (10th) 11:00am-2:00pm

Now you understand why I am SOO pissed about not being able to get the upgrade on the HoKeY fare.

That's why I fly AA or UA internationally, unless I need DL miles. No way will I buy an "upgradable" fare on DL because they're too expensive and there's not always a guarantee the upgrade will go through. So it's a rock-bottom fare for me or nothing thanks to stupid upgrade rules on DL/CO/NW.

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"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither." - Ben Franklin

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 11-04-2001).]

Far, actually very far be it from me to defend CO, but the history of the three day rule is the following.

Apparently some number of elites booked on upgradeable fares would reserve a decent portion of BF tickets under someone else's name, then the other person would not show up and just get a refund.

Because there were so many last minute cancellations, upgrades went through. Elites were using this system to increase the odds of a last minute upgrade.

So what did CO do? Look for the abusers? Trace back the cancelled tickets? Trace back the frequent upgraders? No, put in the three day rule effectively negating any last minute cancellations from making upgrades available.

This stupidity (leaving 9 BF seats empty while a 2 million mile platinum stews in coach) is one of the loudest complaints I've heard from loyal platinum elites.

CO would do away with the whole problem if they allowed some number of confirmed systemwide upgrades.

Did you ever think of doing a Northwest-Pokey instead, on the flights that weren't upgradeable at time of purchase? Thats why I check with them first before I'd even think of playing the pokey lottery. Upgrades at time of purchase can save the headaches of 6-7 hrs in coach. Just my 2 HoKeY cents worth...

Some of these urban legends are true, some are not. Not too many people will or could charge $8000+ per ticket to a credit card and wait 8-10 weeks for a refund. Hey, thatsa how long they told me it would take a month ago for a refundable IAH-HNL ticket. And cash refunds take even longer.

CO used to get a lot of last minute screaming and pleadings for B/F u/g. All that seems to be gone along with the hold-ups it caused on the day of travel. Still the 3 day rule SUCKS.

MisterNice

Zip;

I'm a big fan of the NW work-around, but in this case, judging by his itinerary for the next week or so, it would appear that CO's double-elite miles promo was a major factor in his planning.

It does appear that he got the worst of both worlds if he had to book within the 3-day window, pay HoKeY-- fly coach.

But as I said, this thread really should be called "3-day rule stinks!"


p.s. let's go Yanks?

sssssssss.....boom.

This message self destructed.



[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 11-04-2001).]

JonNYC, couple posts above, you referred to thezipper as Zip!! You need a different short name for thezipper!
Strangely, I'm also doing a mileage run on flts 28 and 29, with the 3 hrs+ layover at LGW. Yes, for the double elite miles. After busting the platinum barrier by 30,000+ miles the last couple uears, and just missing Platinum the yr before, I think I deserve this! (assuming I can survive the 16 hrs in coach!).

Go snakes!

For once, I agree with NJDavid. Although the 72-hour rule stinks for the honest passenger, I understand why it had to be done.

Another poster mentioned that not a lot of people could afford to float an $8000 ticket while waiting for a refund. I beg to differ. First of all, there are probably a great many people that could float $8000 for a month or two. Second, it doesn't even require a ticket purchase, as full-fare reservations in J can be reserved over the phone up to 11 months in advance and be left unticketed, with the space confirmed and even a seat assignment, until 60 minutes prior to departure for international flights. Actually, the same is true for Y fares in coach. It would be very difficult to track this back to the elite users that were abusing the system. Just because a particular elite was a frequent recipient of an upgrade on flights with last-minute cancellations or no-shows wouldn't be proof that they were responsible for the phantom bookings. And, they can't really put restrictions on ticketing/cancellations/refunds on full Y or J fares, as the complete freedom they offer is a big reason why people buy those fares in the first place, and they represent a significant profit center for the airline (any airline, not just CO).

Actually, I think the 72-hour rule is much more insidious than HoKeY. I think it's a given that it removes the motivation for people to make phantom J bookings in order to increase the chances of an upgrade. But, on every flight, there's a good chance that there will be at least some (one?) last-minute cancellation of a confirmed BF seat due to any number of reasons (missed connection, cancellation, failure to ticket by deadline, no-show, etc.). The 72-hour rule means that these seats no longer go to elites in the back that were on the upgrade waitlist but didn't clear at the 72-hour rule. Also, it prevents upgrades into seats that yield management held back for sale until the last minute (that is, they were in J, but not R). I fully understand why at least some seats need to be set aside for full-fare purchases at the last minute, but it's a shame that the ones that go unsold can't be used for last-minute upgrades. So, those seats now go out empty, with a non-rev in them, or are used for operational upgrades (well, this last point isn't so bad, because if they use elite status as the priority for an operational upgrade, those lucky folks get the upgrade without having to pay the miles). Combining all of this, I suspect that the 72-hour rule has reduced the number of seats that actually get coach mileage upgrades to BF by some substantial amount. Not a good thing.

I've held back posting my HoKeY comments during the past few months, as every time I sit down to write my message, it gets to be way too long. Suffice it to say that I think there are some advantages to the passenger, along with disadvantages, to HoKeY. The main advantage is an increased chance to actually get an upgrade on popular routes (remember that there was some amount of belly-aching going on here about some of the European routes where even Platinums would not get upgraded). I also realize that there is a significant downside to HoKeY, especially to Platinums that usually cleared the waitlist anyway. So, there's some give, and some take, to HoKeY.

But as for the 72-hour rule (which has nothing to do with HoKeY and pre-dated it, as has already been pointed out by others), there's really no benefit to the customer. I realize why they had to do it, but I agree with NJDavid that I wish there was a better way to accomplish the same goal and not affect the elites as much.

Well put. And let's not underestimate the sheer number of empty BF seats that end up with non-rev's behinds comfortably ensconced in them. I have several friends who work for CO, both here and abroad, and they -love- those BF seats (don't we all.)

They're nice hard-working folks but I certainly don't see the revenue advantage in them using those seats.

It seems that award seats in BF cannot be confirmed until 30 days before departure, regardless of elite status.