Warm Nuts Theory
Dec 5, 1999 | 10:05 am
#31
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: In protest of Flyertalk's uncalledfor censoring of my point of view, I cancelled my InsideFlyer subscription. So long, and thanks for everything.
Posts: 3,325
Welcome CO 757.
We certainly appreciate your participation and perspectives here. Please do not confuse my disagreements with some of your points as a lack of appreciation for your contribution, but I do disagree.
Somehow, I feel there's a discrepancy between that statement and the marketing arm of CO. I wouldn't fly CO if the ads read "Safe, quick passage from Point A to Point B". I chose Continental because of the "congress of chefs", because of the "good flights not an issue", because of the "business first award winning service". As Matt/Nutz pointed out, If all I expected was basic transportation, I might choose Southwest, where my hopes would not be raised, and my expectations would be met.
To say "fly us because our award winning service is terriffic" and then when we ask why the service was not good the reply is "what do you expect, we've provided the transportation you requested so don't bug us", that's playing both sides of an issue.
Shareholder should be entitled to have his wine the way he wants it, if the winelist and service is advertized as a reason to fly CO. The meals should be better than "something to eat because we're hungry" if the food is advertized as a reason to fly CO.
I assure you, if you do away with the first/business cabin, make all the seats bigger, tell everyone that all their getting is a hot-dog and soda, and drop your prices to a third of where they are now, you'll have very happy passengers who won't complain about the wine. With a $5000 price for a round trip in business first, the goals of the FA's should be more than keeping the passengers "occupied" for the duration of the flight.
We certainly appreciate your participation and perspectives here. Please do not confuse my disagreements with some of your points as a lack of appreciation for your contribution, but I do disagree.
Keep this in mind: We are an airline looking to provide you with safe, quick passage from Point A -to- Point B.
Keeping you occupied for that time frame can be a challenge, but that's why we have video and audio entertainment. We also figure you will get hungry and need something to eat; we have always attempted to provide that meal in relaxed, but elegant atmosphere.
Keeping you occupied for that time frame can be a challenge, but that's why we have video and audio entertainment. We also figure you will get hungry and need something to eat; we have always attempted to provide that meal in relaxed, but elegant atmosphere.
To say "fly us because our award winning service is terriffic" and then when we ask why the service was not good the reply is "what do you expect, we've provided the transportation you requested so don't bug us", that's playing both sides of an issue.
Shareholder should be entitled to have his wine the way he wants it, if the winelist and service is advertized as a reason to fly CO. The meals should be better than "something to eat because we're hungry" if the food is advertized as a reason to fly CO.
I assure you, if you do away with the first/business cabin, make all the seats bigger, tell everyone that all their getting is a hot-dog and soda, and drop your prices to a third of where they are now, you'll have very happy passengers who won't complain about the wine. With a $5000 price for a round trip in business first, the goals of the FA's should be more than keeping the passengers "occupied" for the duration of the flight.
Dec 5, 1999 | 11:13 am
#32
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: SFO
Programs: No status anymore. Former CO PLT, NW PLT, AS MVP
Posts: 502
A hearty welcome, CO757!
I do hope to be hearing more from you in the future. I take it from your post that you're an FA with CO?
For what it's worth, you should consider that it's a sign of generally great service when the things we complain about are whether or not the nuts are warm, and whether or not we get to taste all of the wines.
The thing is, those of us who travel frequently on CO have come to recognize when the service hits that "perfect 10" and when it doesn't. That's because we've seen both types, often on the same routes. For example, I have flown more often on CO120 and CO125 than probably any other flights in the entire route system. I notice when things are different, such as when the nuts are served cold.
On the other hand, my worst CO experiences (since Bethune took over, anyway) are still better than my best NW experiences.
But NJDavid has a point (though his post is related in part to a recent unpleasant HNL-EWR flight). If CO decides to focus solely on getting passengers from A to B, then there truly is no difference between CO and NW. Why do I fly CO wherever I possibly can? Because the focus has been on getting me from A to B in the most comfortable, pleasant fashion possible at that altitude. That's the primary reason I choose CO...it's the service. Lord knows it's not easy to fly CO from SEA; UA, AS, NW, and DL all have more extensive schedules. With the possible exception of AS (where I end up having to compare apples to oranges), none of those airlines compare to CO in service.
Bottom line, I agree that the order of priorities always begins with getting me from A to B safely, followed closely by getting me there on time. But if the other priorities (comfort, quality, etc.) become nonpriorities la NW, then I'll find someone else who does consider those to be on the list for my business. CO has thus far proven that it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.
One more thing, before I forget. You should take a look at the Trip Report section. In it, we detail exactly what happens on the flights we take. I suspect you'll find it to be quite informative.
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Michael
OnePass Platinum
[This message has been edited by mweiss (edited 12-05-1999).]
I do hope to be hearing more from you in the future. I take it from your post that you're an FA with CO?
For what it's worth, you should consider that it's a sign of generally great service when the things we complain about are whether or not the nuts are warm, and whether or not we get to taste all of the wines.
The thing is, those of us who travel frequently on CO have come to recognize when the service hits that "perfect 10" and when it doesn't. That's because we've seen both types, often on the same routes. For example, I have flown more often on CO120 and CO125 than probably any other flights in the entire route system. I notice when things are different, such as when the nuts are served cold.
On the other hand, my worst CO experiences (since Bethune took over, anyway) are still better than my best NW experiences.
But NJDavid has a point (though his post is related in part to a recent unpleasant HNL-EWR flight). If CO decides to focus solely on getting passengers from A to B, then there truly is no difference between CO and NW. Why do I fly CO wherever I possibly can? Because the focus has been on getting me from A to B in the most comfortable, pleasant fashion possible at that altitude. That's the primary reason I choose CO...it's the service. Lord knows it's not easy to fly CO from SEA; UA, AS, NW, and DL all have more extensive schedules. With the possible exception of AS (where I end up having to compare apples to oranges), none of those airlines compare to CO in service.
Bottom line, I agree that the order of priorities always begins with getting me from A to B safely, followed closely by getting me there on time. But if the other priorities (comfort, quality, etc.) become nonpriorities la NW, then I'll find someone else who does consider those to be on the list for my business. CO has thus far proven that it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.
One more thing, before I forget. You should take a look at the Trip Report section. In it, we detail exactly what happens on the flights we take. I suspect you'll find it to be quite informative.
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Michael
OnePass Platinum
[This message has been edited by mweiss (edited 12-05-1999).]
Dec 5, 1999 | 11:40 am
#33
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Based on my CC Spend (PLT 25-GLD 26), AA LT 2MM, LY Gold, Bonvoy LT Plt, Mets fan
Posts: 5,077
Hi, CO757. Good to see you here.
You're right, Shareholder. I may not recognize the standard of a good club or restaurant. I would hope that CO will never stoop so low as to screen its pax based on income, good looks, fancy clothing, or who they know, the way so many of the "good" clubs and restaurants do.
When I fly FC or BizFirst, it's usually with upgrades - either Elite or paid with miles. Do I want CO to have to pay more to develop enough flying sommeliers to staff every flight? Hell, no.
But I'll tell you this: If I'm paying to be in the front cabin, it's because someone has decided that I need to spend that time working productively. If that's the case, I don't want to sit with an empty tray in front of me for even an extra 5 seconds while the F/A has to stand there watching you cup a glass of red wine in your hand to warm it before you swirl it around, bring it to your mouth, breathe the vapors, taste the wine, and spit the remnants.
If that's the level of service you want, I suggest you go to a 3-cabin airline, fly F, and leave the rest of us in the business class cabin. Until then, though, maybe you can help me with a question: when the utensils come all wrapped up in the napkin, how am I supposed to tell which is the correct teaspoon?
You're right, Shareholder. I may not recognize the standard of a good club or restaurant. I would hope that CO will never stoop so low as to screen its pax based on income, good looks, fancy clothing, or who they know, the way so many of the "good" clubs and restaurants do.
When I fly FC or BizFirst, it's usually with upgrades - either Elite or paid with miles. Do I want CO to have to pay more to develop enough flying sommeliers to staff every flight? Hell, no.
But I'll tell you this: If I'm paying to be in the front cabin, it's because someone has decided that I need to spend that time working productively. If that's the case, I don't want to sit with an empty tray in front of me for even an extra 5 seconds while the F/A has to stand there watching you cup a glass of red wine in your hand to warm it before you swirl it around, bring it to your mouth, breathe the vapors, taste the wine, and spit the remnants.
If that's the level of service you want, I suggest you go to a 3-cabin airline, fly F, and leave the rest of us in the business class cabin. Until then, though, maybe you can help me with a question: when the utensils come all wrapped up in the napkin, how am I supposed to tell which is the correct teaspoon?
Dec 5, 1999 | 5:29 pm
#34
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 219
Thank you for welcoming me into this threaded conversation and group! I hope that I will provide you the "employee" perspective and further gain the "customers" perspective. I will always give you my honest opinions on our service, policy and/or procedures, whether I agree with them or not. I also request you that you do the same. If we come to a topic that we have opposing views, I hope we can agree to disagree.
FYI: I also post under the same name on TRIP.com's "Hot Talk". I will try to be consistent in my replys, and I know you will let me know when I'm not -that is if you also post on Hot Talk.
In addition to flying for CO, I work for a large ERP software vendor. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I actually wear both sets of shoes...yours and mine. I travel for my other company at least once a month, but that isn't nearly as much as many of you. Personally, I always try to keep your shoes in mind when I'm working as a crewmember.
Before I write another word, I want you to know on a flight from EWR-LAS today, I passed your "warm nuts" theory on to my fellow crewmembers. We were catered with the nuts in the ramiken. I told the F/A's about this post and based on that information they elected to warm the nuts. I was working in coach, but from what I could tell, the f/c customers were enjoying the service.
Regarding my earlier post. I want you to rest assured that Continental and the majority of its employees are committed to providing excellent inflight and ground services. In other words, our only interest is not just in getting you from Point A to Point B.
NJDavid's expectation isn't necessarily out of line, but when you have 24 customers served by 2 people (1 other person is in the galley), NJDavid's "needs" are part of all 23 other customers who want that individualized attention.
I don't know of any company that doesn't have a marketing/sales department that over promises and at times, under delivers. My perception and the marketing departments are truly in sync with each other. I just choose to tell you that part of the "copy" they leave out: We are a transportation company not a restaurant! Our primary responsiblity is to safely transport you and secondary to provide the amenities that make your trip special.
As a shareholder, I want to keep your business, but your expecations may be better served paying United $11,200.00 to fly you from New York to Tokyo in a true First Class Cabin. Our BusinessFirst product, and our company direction for that matter, is to serve the needs of the buisness traveler. The same trip, by the way (NYC to Tokyo), on us would be around half that amount ($5845.00) according to Travelocity.com.
Since BusinessFirst came to being, we have stopped comparing ourselves to any of our competiors First Classes. We are offering a premium business class service. Maybe it isn't that we aren't keeping our end of the contract, rather it is your expectations (first class service in a business class cabin) that are in need of review and adjustment.
------------------
CO757
FYI: I also post under the same name on TRIP.com's "Hot Talk". I will try to be consistent in my replys, and I know you will let me know when I'm not -that is if you also post on Hot Talk.
In addition to flying for CO, I work for a large ERP software vendor. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I actually wear both sets of shoes...yours and mine. I travel for my other company at least once a month, but that isn't nearly as much as many of you. Personally, I always try to keep your shoes in mind when I'm working as a crewmember.
Before I write another word, I want you to know on a flight from EWR-LAS today, I passed your "warm nuts" theory on to my fellow crewmembers. We were catered with the nuts in the ramiken. I told the F/A's about this post and based on that information they elected to warm the nuts. I was working in coach, but from what I could tell, the f/c customers were enjoying the service.
Regarding my earlier post. I want you to rest assured that Continental and the majority of its employees are committed to providing excellent inflight and ground services. In other words, our only interest is not just in getting you from Point A to Point B.
NJDavid's expectation isn't necessarily out of line, but when you have 24 customers served by 2 people (1 other person is in the galley), NJDavid's "needs" are part of all 23 other customers who want that individualized attention.
I don't know of any company that doesn't have a marketing/sales department that over promises and at times, under delivers. My perception and the marketing departments are truly in sync with each other. I just choose to tell you that part of the "copy" they leave out: We are a transportation company not a restaurant! Our primary responsiblity is to safely transport you and secondary to provide the amenities that make your trip special.
As a shareholder, I want to keep your business, but your expecations may be better served paying United $11,200.00 to fly you from New York to Tokyo in a true First Class Cabin. Our BusinessFirst product, and our company direction for that matter, is to serve the needs of the buisness traveler. The same trip, by the way (NYC to Tokyo), on us would be around half that amount ($5845.00) according to Travelocity.com.
Since BusinessFirst came to being, we have stopped comparing ourselves to any of our competiors First Classes. We are offering a premium business class service. Maybe it isn't that we aren't keeping our end of the contract, rather it is your expectations (first class service in a business class cabin) that are in need of review and adjustment.
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CO757
Dec 5, 1999 | 9:01 pm
#35
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: SFO
Programs: No status anymore. Former CO PLT, NW PLT, AS MVP
Posts: 502
CO757,
Before you assume that our expectations are set wrong, you should read NJDavid's post at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/000551.html
In it, he describes an experience in coach that is actually worse than my coach experiences on NW. We're not talking BusinessFirst here. Nobody should be served an egg sandwich that is still frozen in the center. Even WN wouldn't do that, and they're an awful lot cheaper than anyone else. Plus, there's never any excuse for rude behavior.
In short, I don't think anyone on this board has expressed what I would consider to be unreasonable expectations. Nobody has demanded UA TransPacific First Class service. I experienced CO BF from EWR to DUB and back, and I was very pleased. You can read that trip report, too, if you'd like. It's at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/000289.html
Before you assume that our expectations are set wrong, you should read NJDavid's post at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/000551.html
In it, he describes an experience in coach that is actually worse than my coach experiences on NW. We're not talking BusinessFirst here. Nobody should be served an egg sandwich that is still frozen in the center. Even WN wouldn't do that, and they're an awful lot cheaper than anyone else. Plus, there's never any excuse for rude behavior.
In short, I don't think anyone on this board has expressed what I would consider to be unreasonable expectations. Nobody has demanded UA TransPacific First Class service. I experienced CO BF from EWR to DUB and back, and I was very pleased. You can read that trip report, too, if you'd like. It's at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/000289.html
Dec 5, 1999 | 10:10 pm
#36
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: In protest of Flyertalk's uncalledfor censoring of my point of view, I cancelled my InsideFlyer subscription. So long, and thanks for everything.
Posts: 3,325
To be fair, you might also want to check out a comparison trip report I recently wrote between AA First class to Narita, and CO Business First back. I was a unique opportunity, but one that probably cost me the next level of elite on CO for next year. (My company's stupid desire to book everything on AA is also to blame.)
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/000478.html
Bottom line of this entire discussion is a scary trend we've just seen of customer service in the service industry getting scarce, and that legitimate complaints being discounted as people who expect too much.
And yes, I am pissed at customer care.....rightly. Round two coming up soon.
[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 12-06-1999).]
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/000478.html
Bottom line of this entire discussion is a scary trend we've just seen of customer service in the service industry getting scarce, and that legitimate complaints being discounted as people who expect too much.
And yes, I am pissed at customer care.....rightly. Round two coming up soon.
[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 12-06-1999).]
Dec 5, 1999 | 10:28 pm
#37
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Houston, Texas, TEXAS
Posts: 1,510
CO757
Welcome to flyertalk from another Platinum Elite. I think you will find us discussing items that are beneficial to everyone. To my knowledge, you are the first CO employee we have seen here and we are glad you are here. Several other airline threads have airline employees that post here and help us with our occasional problems. I have 107 segments on CO in 1999, and I can say, except for a couple of times in 1999, I have been very pleased with CO service. Keep serving the warm nuts and the service that goes with them.
Welcome to flyertalk from another Platinum Elite. I think you will find us discussing items that are beneficial to everyone. To my knowledge, you are the first CO employee we have seen here and we are glad you are here. Several other airline threads have airline employees that post here and help us with our occasional problems. I have 107 segments on CO in 1999, and I can say, except for a couple of times in 1999, I have been very pleased with CO service. Keep serving the warm nuts and the service that goes with them.
Dec 7, 1999 | 5:51 pm
#38
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 219
Thank You
I want you all to know that it is going to take me awhile to adjust to this board.
I wanted to respond to NJDavid, but now I'm afraid my comments may appear to be to harsh. I don't want to alienate myself (at least not this early...<G> ) so until I can go back and read more of your posts and fimilarize myself with the electronic personalities on this board, I will drop my discussion on this topic.
I may try to re-visit it later. Thanks for the continued welcomes and I look forward to building a productive and effective relationship with you.
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CO757
I want you all to know that it is going to take me awhile to adjust to this board.
I wanted to respond to NJDavid, but now I'm afraid my comments may appear to be to harsh. I don't want to alienate myself (at least not this early...<G> ) so until I can go back and read more of your posts and fimilarize myself with the electronic personalities on this board, I will drop my discussion on this topic.
I may try to re-visit it later. Thanks for the continued welcomes and I look forward to building a productive and effective relationship with you.
------------------
CO757
Dec 23, 2000 | 11:09 am
#39
Original Poster
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: TX
Posts: 712
Happy holidays to everyone. Thought I'd re-warm a cold thread 
How have your nuts been this holiday season? Warm or cold? (The ones served on CO flights in FClass?)
Well, on CO flight 100 from SAN to EWR, when the FA filled our pre-flight drinks a second time, I told my wife to expect warm nuts and lo and behold before the meal we could smell the nuts a' roastin (really). The nuts were not only warm, they were "hot" nuts. Service was exceptional.
How have your CO nuts been lately? I'm still getting about 50/50 warm nuts, these days.
(Please be of good cheer and no ba humbug EUA comments, or Santa may drop some cold nuts into your stocking; and to the person most likely to comment about this parenthetical comment itself, please grant me this one Christmas wish, and dont'
.) Just the nuts, please.
[This message has been edited by JeffLewis2 (edited 12-23-2000).]
How have your nuts been this holiday season? Warm or cold? (The ones served on CO flights in FClass?)
Well, on CO flight 100 from SAN to EWR, when the FA filled our pre-flight drinks a second time, I told my wife to expect warm nuts
and lo and behold before the meal we could smell the nuts a' roastin (really). The nuts were not only warm, they were "hot" nuts. Service was exceptional.How have your CO nuts been lately? I'm still getting about 50/50 warm nuts, these days.
(Please be of good cheer and no ba humbug EUA comments, or Santa may drop some cold nuts into your stocking; and to the person most likely to comment about this parenthetical comment itself, please grant me this one Christmas wish, and dont'
.) Just the nuts, please.[This message has been edited by JeffLewis2 (edited 12-23-2000).]
Dec 23, 2000 | 12:33 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX , CO PLT
Posts: 189
All cold nuts here recently, unfortunately. I've still had some flights with what I consider great service (and some without), but no warm nuts 
Dec 23, 2000 | 12:44 pm
#41
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Spring Lake,NJ
Posts: 1,219
Had nuts warmed IN THE FOIL BAG yesterday.. DFW-EWR!! Is this the new technique?
Dec 23, 2000 | 1:35 pm
#42
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 122
Now that I think about it, on my last CO flight in FC we were served snacks in foil packages. No nuts, just pretzels and a chex mix knock off. I can't even remember the last time I got hot nuts in FC, and I flew every other week from September to the beginning of this month. Then again, the memory isn't what it used to be...
Dec 23, 2000 | 3:11 pm
#43
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Million Miler (mostly earned on CO)
Posts: 2,599
I had nice, warm nuts on my CO flight IAH-PTY, and then on Copa from PTY-MIA! Foil bag nuts on the way home MIA-IAH, and cold nuts on IAH-SFO.
Dec 23, 2000 | 4:11 pm
#44
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: new brunswick, new jersey and farmington, conn. USA
Posts: 615
Sooo...actually, in my conversation with an FA on a flight from EWR to SEA, she pointed up that the nuts were *supposed* to be served warm under any circumstances.
She did, however, smile and point out that she's had fine service on an airline that served nuts in cans. I didn't think of it, and then it came to me that BA First Class does literally give you a tin of nuts, which are also really good.
Nevertheless, the service was typical top-notch CO quality both ways, and the FA even joked that she had performance anxiety about serving my mixed nuts.
(You're right. This thread is hard to keep out of the gutter, and i'm a g-i-r-l and still restraining smirks.*grin*)
She did, however, smile and point out that she's had fine service on an airline that served nuts in cans. I didn't think of it, and then it came to me that BA First Class does literally give you a tin of nuts, which are also really good.
Nevertheless, the service was typical top-notch CO quality both ways, and the FA even joked that she had performance anxiety about serving my mixed nuts.
(You're right. This thread is hard to keep out of the gutter, and i'm a g-i-r-l and still restraining smirks.*grin*)
Dec 27, 2000 | 11:05 am
#45
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
How about a FT-CO Board greeting: "May EUA upgrade your flight and your nuts be warm."
gwendolynaoife: Welcome to FT, from another Pioneer Valley resident.
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
gwendolynaoife: Welcome to FT, from another Pioneer Valley resident.
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."