David, you said that "More than half of the elites will get less upgrades." Actually the number of elites screwed by EUA is far greater.

Talked to a CO elite agent a couple of weeks ago, and I asked him about the breakdown of elite flyers. He said that 2K to 3K were Plat, 25K were Gold, and 75K were Silver...and all of them combined produced 50% of CO's revenue. That means that 100K elites are going to get the shaft for 2-3K Plats.

And, would you have lost those 2-3K Plats if you eliminated or seriously modified EUA? I really doubt it!!! But, how many of those 100K Silver/Golds are you going to lose due to EUA?

IMHO, EUA is the dumbest business decision since "New Coke" or "Continental Lite"!!!


------------------
"An upgrade, an upgrade! My kingdom for an upgrade!"

Ozstamps:

Go play at the UA forum please!!!Let us alone since you do not know what you are talking about!

------------------
Viele Gr��e

Oliver

Glen,

CO does not offer nearly as many "Hidden" Benefits as UA seems to.

Semi-Elite, I question the answers from the CO agent. I find it hard to beleive that CO has so few PLAT's.

But, if the answer is correct, how are the Golds/Silvers getting screwed? 2K Plat members averages out to 2 per flight per day. Taking out 50% of the F/C seats for revenue, that still leaves a minimum of 3 U/G Seats left. (I used the 737-500 as an example. 10 F/C seats. 5 Sold, 2 Platinums, 3 remaining)

Camera Guy - your answer is complex but there.

If I'm one of the CO platinums flying well higher than avarage, I not only buy full fare tickets for days I will fly, I buy full fare tickets for days I might fly.

In the past, again if I'm that higher than average platinum, I might have full fare tickets for three cities on any given day. I would never bother to call the Elite line to upgrade these tickets when there's only a 10 or so percent chance I might use any of them. EUA however gives me three upgrades automatically, effectively blocking out gold elite and silver elite in the 2 and 1 day windows. These are travelers who are loyal and travel extensively on the specific tickets they reserved. They usually planned well in advance to be loyal to CO and take that specific flight. Now that they are closed out by the not intending to fly platinum, the seat will only become available 20 minutes before the flight, where it will go to...again the platinum standing by for an upgrade.

I'm not even debating weather or not this should be the way it should be (Platinums get everything except the crumbs left over.) I am debating that anyone characterize this as anything but a wholesale removal of benefits from Gold and Silver Elites. It is most definitely NOT making things easier for the elite, as the CO propaganda engine want's everyone to believe.

I believe that CO had a superior product. By chosing the cowardly, American Express type model of rewarding the highest tier only by reducing the benefits to the lowest tier, they are doing no one a service. Platinum Elites deserve more real benefits (International upgrades, free Presidents Club, etc.). Not pseudo benefits achieved by breaking their own rules at the expense of the heart of Continental's Gold and Silver Elite customer base.

David,

I understand what you are saying, but IF the # of Plat's is that low, when a double booked Plat does not show up for the flight the U/G will go to a Gold or Silver at the gate.

The reason I highlighted IF is that I think that the 2-3K number is very low. That is probably the number of Plat COMPS that CO gives out in one year. I know that comping to Plat is your other pet peeve. I wanted you to know that I support you on the comp issue 100%.

Earned_Plat_The_Hard_Way@denycontinentalthefreddie .com

I don't buy that 2-3K figure for Platinums, Continental has over 2,400 flights a day, if every Platinum was flying one flight a day (365 segments a year) there would be an average of around one Platinum on every flight.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING A CONTINENTAL AGENT TELLS YOU!

Snake and I agree on something at last!

No airline releases publicly figures of its Elites, but sleuthing by many on the UA board has come up for instance with a number of 1K at about 40,000 LAST year. (This years's mess with all the lowered bar entry etc, who knows, so last year is a good yardstick).

A UA 1K needs to Fly 100,000 paid actual miles(no tier/class of service bonus is counted into that) or 100 segments.

Thus getting to 1K on United needs a LOT more flying than getting to Platinum on CO, yet there are some 40,000 a year who still manage it.

If the CO figure of 2-3K is to be believed, it implies UA flies on a "back of envelope" figuring, some TWENTY times more pax than CO does, which is clearly nonsense.

Someone among you will I imagine have "pax carried" data from DOT or wherever for US carriers, and can take a more accurate bead on the figures.



------------------
~ Glen ~

While the numbers might be questionable or just for one specific area, I believe the percentages...and thus the points are valid.

Check out dg1's post on this thread.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum51/HTML/000591.html

Snake, Amen!!! That goes back to the old maxim, "If you don't like what a CO agent tells you, call back and ask again!"

Seriously, I questioned in my mind that 2-3K number for Plats. When you see that a large majority of FlyerTalkers are Plats, and that it isn't unknown for as high as 15 Plats to show up on one flight, it's natural to questions such a low number of Plats. OTOH, I've been on many flights where there wasn't a single Plat!

Of course, you have to realize that Plats do a huge volume of flying on CO...that's why they're Plats...grin. And FlyerTalkers are not exactly a cross-section of average flyers. So, it stands to reason that the number of Plats on any given flight would far outweigh their total numbers!

But, as NJDavid notes, regardless of the exact numbers, Plats are nontheless a small percentage of total Elites, and thus the points I made are still valid!




------------------
"An upgrade, an upgrade! My kingdom for an upgrade!"

I think it is important to split the Platinums in two Categories. I thinkn there are a larger number of International flyer Platinums. 6 flights to asia or israel and you are platinum. So they tend not to compete with the domestic segments that often. The other type is the domestic Platinum. I agree that if the count only included them it would not be 2000-3000 (for the reasons others have mentioned.) I think the number can be accurate due to the international flyers.
Just to agree, I've flown over 100 segments on CO this year and have only seen 1 platinum luggage tag domestically. On my London to houston flight I saw 5. I think this would explain the 2000-3000.

Quoting from NJDAVID above...
"In the past, again if I'm that higher than average platinum, I might have full fare tickets for three cities on any given day. I would never bother to call the Elite line to upgrade these tickets when there's only a 10 or so percent chance I might use any of them. EUA however gives me three upgrades automatically, effectively blocking out gold elite and silver elite in the 2 and 1 day windows. [... copied below...} Now that they are closed out by the not intending to fly platinum, the seat will only become available 20 minutes before the flight, where it will go to...again the platinum standing by for an upgrade" [END]

The problem with your point is that Platinum number 2 could have been locked out on day 3 as well, in which case you a silver calling day 1 would have still been locked out anywho with/without EUA. If a Platinum is waiting to upgrade at the gate, then on day 3 all FC seats were taken, or he booked last minute and paid full fare, in either case it seems to me fair that he should be ahead of you for the upgrade. WHat am I missing?

Quoting the excerpted part now ... "These are travelers who are loyal and travel extensively on the specific tickets they reserved. They usually planned well in advance to be loyal to CO and take that specific flight..." [end quote]. So in other words these are people buying cheap discounted economy fares. Is CO so out of line by giving elites that have the right to upgrade their upgrade? Aren't you under the exact same condition you would be if all people in fact made the call in the tirs above you? Then the only difference is the yet unknown heirarchy within a tier, and it seems that time of reservation is being used, which means those plan aheaders have an advantage to those non-plan aheaders. I love cheap discounted economy fares. I fly them when I can, and I know the risks of that, actually having to fly in the economy seat I paid for. Of course I am a bad example, since every trip I make is international with only 1 segment each way being a domestic US flight (and I am NW Platinum, but by definition I could bo CO Plat just by changing the program crediting the miles). I have to believe that there are plenty of CO Plats who are exactly like me, never competing for the upgrades. I would also think that most CO Domestic platinums would have called under the old system if they intended to fly, I mean that many miles on all domestic flights would be a pain in Economy so they should use their benefits. Also, it seems that in all likelyhood over 50% of CO domestic flights take off without a CO Platinum on board (well ignoring those comped Platinums which I absolutely agree with you on that point, that should never have happened) the rest of the flights would have 1 to many, depending on route and time, something you can perhaps strategize around over time.

I have to agree that the system should not be changed without notice, but I dont think this actually is a change of the program, but simply making sure everyone gets the perks they are entitled to. As an alternative I would propose, what if CO made the EUA kick in at 1am, and people had the right to call in from 12am to 12:59 for the manual upgrades? Then each person has the ability to race ahead of others in their Tier, while those not interested in staying awake til midnight would get their upgrades without having to call in and waste CO's employee time requesting their upgrades. How about that? Well, then, silvers still aren't happy because they cant race ahead of a Platinum or even a gold.

Bottom line, not happy with chances as a silver under EUA, which is not with you like it or not, you have 30+ days to make a quick trip to asia to rack up the miles for gold and the 24 hour headstart and extra 50% (total 100%) elite bonus... definately a worthwhile mileage run. The drive to watch CO on how they are distinguishing within a Tier is definately worthwhile and I wish you all luck in determining that and making sure that it is a fair system.

Wishing everyone the best of luck under EUA and I hope nobody's upgrade percentages falls as much as you fear.

[This message has been edited by tummyg (edited 11-25-2000).]

The real problem I've been seeing is that the system does not work. I'm not just some silver complaining about the EUA because I was denied an upgrade. I'm some silver complaining because I've gotten to the airport expecting an upgrade and was told "oh, you weren't upgraded last night for some reason. but we can do it now". I appreciate the upgrade at the counter, but isn't the EUA sippossed to eliminate this? I thought the whole point was that I could sleep, everyone got a fair shake and IF available, I got a seat. My confidence in the system has been shaken by this and it's happened to me several times in the last month. I'll make gold this month, but with the current situation what's the point?

2 to 3 thousand platinums is absurdly low. There are likely that many "infinites". My guess is you are looking at 30,000 minimum. With codeshares, and the number of flights in the system (especially international), it just isn't that tough to hit the threshold. Besides, the whole purpose of the promotion is to grow the category. Much as we dislike the result, too many folks were getting too good at beating the system. In the end, they may relent, and make changes to placate people, but it is then just a simple matter of yield management to reduce the whole thing to a "standby at the gate" process. which is where it all started in the first place.

I agree with deelmakur. Just do the math. Continental must have 1500-2000 flights a day.That means 20-25,000 FC seats If there were only 3,000 Plats and 25,000 Golds, there would be plenty of upgrade seats for all Plats and Golds, unless they each flew every day ! The real figure is likely to be 10 times what was suggested.