Hey, UpgradeMe and IM4Travel:

Thanks for helping me show a recently arriving flyertalker how this board has devolved from a strong community of folks sharing information to beat and in some instances actually change "the system" into "Just another internet forum where juvenile rudeness for its own sake is de rigueur."

If you have a cogent point to make, make it. Ad hominim attacks, particularly unprovoked ones, do far more to diminish you then they do your intended target.

Ironically, a few weeks ago I was seriosuly considering taking the leap over to CO. As a 100+ mile/year flyer the recent changes would benefit me. But when I drew up a list of pros and cons, the two biggest cons (and deciding factors) were, in order:

1. International upgrades and
2. The Flyertalk CO boards (and posters) are just so mean...

I have stayed relatively quiet during much of the arguing that has been going on here regarding EUA and the unannounced changes to OnePass, but feel a need to add my 2 miles here:

I agree with some of NJDavid's complaints, and disagree with some of them. I will be glad to go into much more detail on an appropriate thread.

I would like to respectfully point out to several people who have participated in this thread that the attacks have gotten too personal and, in my opinion, extremely immature, and can easily be taken offline via email.

Now, regarding the topic, I for one think this is a good change. If I can't make up my mind in 14 days, then I don't need the seats that bad, and maybe this will help free up additional seats.

Sincerely,

One NOT so very mean CO FTer,

Mike

IM4Travel & UpgradeMe - Give it up already. NJDavid has contributed more to the continental forum, in the way of factual, correct and helpful (maybe not always positive) information and advice than most others in the CO forum.

BTW, I am changing from CO to AA next year due to the fact that my upgrade percentage has drastically declined since EUA (over 50K on CO this year and 25K on AA). AA treats me better, everyday in AA coach is better than 30% of the time in CO coach, AA domestic first class tickets are only 40K each vs. 80K each, my companion upgrades at the same time as me, based on my status, not day of flight, and I prefer their international upgrade policy (i.e. confirmed, with miles, at time of booking). NJDavid's contributions to this board have certainly helped me with this decision. If you do not have anything constructive to say, rather do not say it.

TCrazy

[This message has been edited by Travelcrazy (edited 12-04-2000).]

To stay on topic, I have to agree with CameraGuy. I am not sure that the rule was that you had 30 days to make up your mind on a reward ticket (someone please show me where in the program rules it says that).

In my experience (and I have booked 4 reward trips this year alone) it has always been a 14 day hold on a onepass reward. But, IF you asked nicely (or maybe because of your elite status) you could get an extension. So if one agent won't give an extension, call back and get another "nicer" agent. However, maybe they have gotten more strict about this now.

I think it is overall a good time frame - for the reasons stated above. Remember too, if you still aren't sure about the ticket you can book it and cancel later for a (relatively small) $35 mileage redeposit fee.

I should have written this in my last post, but, for the record, 14 days seems like enough time to me for someone to make up their mind. And, if not, asking for an extension or making a new reservation is always a possibility.

So I disagree with NJDavid on this issue, but am behind him fully on the EUA thing (a bigger issue in scope, too, I might add).

Would someone be kind enough to show me where I have "attacked" anyone?

I do not dispute NJDAVID's right to complain all he wants. I simply object to his attempt to tie each and every action by CO to the 60 day rule.

Upgrade, I do believe you suggested shipping me to another board so I could fine people. I didn't think it was meant as a compliment??? I would like to point out it's a JOKE that I started because of the huge number of threads on international upgrades. (should have done it for auto upgrade threads...i'd be rich! ). I would point out in the last month I have mentioned fines once or twice, I really don't think that is excessive. Maybe some humor (even bad humor) is not such a bad thing occasionally, especially in light of the ugly mood lately on this board.

Im4travel, you're out of line. DGOLDS did nothing to you. You should have a little more respect for others. I don't agree with him always.. BUT, he always will conceed his postions are always well thought out. I can disagree and still respect someone.
As for war against NJDAVID... lay off. He's upset. But he has EARNED it. After all his good posts, cut him some slack for a month or so. Everybody's entitled to lose it once in a while. He's not like some posters who ALWAYS are complaining. And his complaints are factual. NOT I feel i'm being screwed...etc. To quote the rodney king of CO...DGOLDS, "can't we all get along here?"

I have no beef with DGolds..never did...maybe you misunderstood where my comments were aimed..only at NJDavid.

I looked over the OnePass rules and I could not find anywhere that there is any mention of a 30 day hold time. So I think this argument probably wins: this was never something that was guaranteed within the rules, and thus there is no way to apply the "60 day change notice" rule to the "30 day hold" policy by incorporation.

To me, the rule / policy distinction has to be made. There are posted rules which CO should follow to the letter. These comprise a contract between CO and its passengers, who behave in reliance on the printed words contained therein. On top of the formal, printed rules are various policies through which CO implements the rules. CO should be allowed some freedom to exercise business judgment to modify policies in the way they desire.

The best argument I can think of, contra, would be as follows. That you should not draw the rules / policies distinction at the printed / non-printed boundary. That even some non printed rules may be of such a character that Onepass users rely, materially, upon them. You might argue this boundary would be more properly set as to those rules, printed or non printed, which have a "material effect on one's ability to acquire reward seats." So, a 30 day hold might be material, whereas elimination of the 800 elite number might not be, just as an example.

I think the latter argument, while colorable, is probably not the sound one.

One more thing. I have never commented at all on the recent flame wars, but I will say this.

NJDavid, the words you chose for this topic seem deceptive to me, as another poster suggested above. You might have more properly entitled this topic "Another unannounced change to Onepass."

The plural construction, which did cause a slight rumbling in my stomach until I read the substance of your message, was simply not supported by the content you posted.

The Rodney King of the CO board? Hey, Cigarman, you been looking into my record or something?

Some random replies:

"Another Unanounced change..." would definitely have been a better title to the thread. While I object to the scrutiny of "thread titling" as not being something anyone has ever been subject to before, I can agree the change would have been a better refelection of the topic at hand.

I also can understand those that have suggested that viewing this under the 60 day change written notice policy is unfair. I might disagree, but there is the point that this was not a written policy in the first place I can't dispute.

I am (and others elites I have discussed this with are) still galled that CO changes features of the one pass program without informing it's members. Whether or not anyone agrees with my very vocal opposition to EUA or anything else I have raised issues with, I can't see defending the airline for making changes that effect it's members without telling them. Many CO elites (including myself) have STILL received no official notice of the EUA.

If someone doesn't like to read honest commentary and criticism of a program in a Flyertalk forum supposed to be discussing that program, as I said to someone earlier, that's their problem not mine. (Never argue with an idiot as people usually can't tell the difference. The idiots have made themselves known by the sofistication of their comments and need no help from me to point them out.)

And I honestly don't feel that I ever "lost it" but if that is an honest opinion of my comments here, I apologize as no offense was meant. I will continue to post of good and bad experiences as I travel, and continue to criticize CO where it is warranted.

As far as the EUA, as I said in another thread (so as not to repeat issues like a broken record), more later.

WHOAAAAAAAAAAA NELLIE - NJDAVID - I find that you are the one who objects to honest commentary - It is YOU who accused people of being asleep, allowing CO to mess with them, having their head in the sand etc. etc. - This has been your way of not accepting commentary that is different from yours - Let's face it revenue producers and Platinums love the new changes and quite frankly CO should be very protective of these passengers. I have some very good friends at CO and they have told me that the comments about EUA have been extremely positive - and yes, these are personal friends who would tell me otherwise - They admit that there is a very vocal minority that is upset but commentary is running way ahead on the positive side. I would ask you to follow your own advice(given on the Hilton
board) to be VERY SPECIFIC about your complaints - give examples of how the EUA system has ACTUALLY damaged you in a SPECIFIC situation and how that would not
DEFINITIVELY occurred under the old system - Just please practice what you preach - kazman

And that speaks volumes about your position on issues such as EUA, which isn't even the topic of this thread. No comments from me, specific or otherwise, are necessary.

*****
Editing this post to add that the issue of Hilton / Continental and appropriate comments were addressed the last time it was brought up in another thread.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/001580.html




[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 12-05-2000).]

NJDAVID - No more comments ..... AHHH - THANKS !!!!!!!!! That speaks volumes about my message ..... An end to the crying .... What a wonderful day .....kazman -