CHIC SILBER

Very good observation

But a very sad story

It's all downhill from here

chasbondy

I'm guessing its because they put 8-10 FC seats in a 737 and 130 seats coach. If no one flew coach, there would be lots of empty seats.

joshwex90

Boeing may have focused on pax comfort, but that says nothing about what each individual airline will do. If the seats are comfortable, are they the same size as on the 772s? Are the aisles even narrower than they are on the 772s? And how big are you? Perhaps you may have been comfortable; that says nothing about larger people.

IAHtraveler

CO/UA hasn't yet received their first 787, so they could be called AA/US/NewCo/Bankrupt Airlines before that thing comes around

That's unfortunate.

james318

Sadly, both North American launch customers will no longer exist!

joshwex90

? Who's the other launch customer? NW??

MileHighGuy

If it makes POS buy 2 seats or fly in first, I'm all for 12 across!

BF263533

I saw this post on the Thai board for coach seating.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thai-...l#post15822848

First picture of new TG Economy Seats

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-1...eryV9-ikwe.jpg

Xyzzy

I've seen several such headlines over the last few years. Each ne was attached to a different delivery target date.

bocastephen

Passenger comfort can easily be undone (to the chagrin of the manufacturer) by:

1) selecting crap seats - i.e. Koito

2) shrinking seat width to cram additional seats into the existing space

I believe Boeing made an error in the 787 design phase - by not tackling this problem very early on, they allowed airlines to undercut their comfort claims by turning what was suppose to be a game-changing aircraft into just another sardine can.

Had Boeing caught this early on, they would have had two options:

1) Right size the cabin width to accomodate ONLY 8 seats across maximum (no chance of adding an extra seat unless the airline went with something like 16.5 or narrower)

2) Understand that airlines wanted to maximize cabin utilization and therefore design a cabin width that would accomodate 9 seats across with extra shoulder and seat (18.5" or more) width, so they could maintain a comfort advantage over Airbus

Of course, considering how Boeing had the opportunity to widen the 737 fuselage with the introduction of the -900 to allow for wider (than Airbus) seats and did not, this comes as no surprise and is my chief criticism of Boeing's design program.

Yes, a fuselage change will require full aerodynamic and performance re-testing, but if these issues are all worked through during the initial design phase before production specs are committed, both manufacturer and airline can agree on the right balance of comfort and economics....and the customer is not left to stumble off the aircraft, bent over and waiting for a DVT stroke after 14+ hours of being stuck in a confined space.

joshwex90

Is that for real??

While I agree with almost everything you're saying, I disagree that with you about Boeing simply widening the 737. It would've been nice, but that's basically creating a new aircraft. There's a reason why in each series of aircraft, all variants are the same width. It complicates everything from aerodynamics, as you mention, to interchangeable parts.

Xyzzy

I doubt it -- that's the same picture as we've seen before of the rather pr idea for half standing seats Regarding right-sizing, there is little Boeing can do to ensure airlines use a particular seating arrangement. It can pick the width of the cabin and the alignment of the seat rails but there are still plenty of variables the airlines have at their disposal with regard to the number of seats per row.

Mackieman

I think you're confusing Boeing customers with airline customers. I submit that Boeing cares very little for the individual passenger's comfort, but rather the needs of their airline customers. Sure, there will always be a, "passenger comfort" marketing bit put out for airlines and the media to use, but the reality is often markedly different.

bocastephen

There are only so many seats you can put in a specific space. If the cabin is right-sized for 6 across at 18.5" per seat, there is no way the airline can put 7 across - they could put in 17.1" wide seats with a wider aisle, true - but not more seats.

Same for a wide-body...so it seems Boeing spec'd the cabin width for some almost-non-existent miracle coach seat that no one would buy, while leaving just enough space for airlines to cram in 9 of today's narrow 17.1" seats. The fuselage should have been spec'd for a more realistic 8x18.5", which would not have allowed room for 9x17.1"....or spec'd for 9x18.5", but not enough for 10x17.1"

Boeing just announced today their plan for a 737 replacement - of course the timeframe is 2020, but if they spec' the new plane for 6x17.1" seats, I'm going to fly to Everett and strangle someone.

BF263533

Quote:
Originally Posted by BF263533
I saw this post on the Thai board for coach seating.

Has aircraft refurbishment started?

First picture of new TG Economy Seats

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-1...eryV9-ikwe.jpg

Apparently just a joke.


There were stories on the web back about 2006?? about how Emirates came to Boeing with its narrow coach seats, and Boeing widened the cabin to cram in these narrow seats at 9 accross. I can't find the story anymore on the web.