robyng

Hope this isn't a penalty box thread (I didn't understand the exact rules there - I'm not complaining - just asking questions). I've been a Continental FF for decades. Simply because it was a good airline that offered great service out of smaller southern cities like where I live now (JAX) - and where I used to live (MIA). Don't like or dislike United - because it has so few flights from where I live and have lived that I doubt I've flown it more than 5 times in the last 40 years. Never got enough miles to get more than a magazine subscription to Better Homes & Gardens .

I always thought that Delta and Continental were pretty sensitive to the travel needs of those of us in SE part of the US. United seemed to concentrate more on those in the north. To me - the great years were when AMEX partnered both with Delta and Continental - and those airlines code-shared when it came to reward travel (I got some of the best deals ever booking Continental rewards on the Continental website on Delta flights).

But all of that is coming to an end now. And I wonder what you "road warriors" think about the implications. On my part - I am not a "road warrior" - maybe 3/4 flights a year - maybe one long international one (longest ever JAX/Tokyo). Will Continental become United - or United become Continental. I suspect the former - but don't know what that means because - living in Florida - I know as much about United as I know about snow storms.

I can tell you one thing. The current reservations system is a little messed up IMO. I just booked a flight from JAX to LAX - and the cheapest option on the CO website - well the return flight was LAX/JAX through O'Hare on United - with a 37 minute connect time at O'Hare. Seemed to be cutting it much too close for my comfort (I usually like about an hour to allow for changing terminals - screw-ups - whatever). And the normal route I would have taken in the past - LAX/IAH/JAX - was about $120 more expensive ($300 versus $400+). And not competitive with the normal Delta route (JAX/ATL/LAX).

Anyway - this is all happening - nothing is going to stop it - but wonder what you think about it - and how you're responding to it - especially if live in or travel to the SE US a lot. Robyn

caseminole

Your message struck a good chord with me. I have lived in Los Angeles since 1986, but have family in JAX that I still visit.

I am a Silver Elite, and have been since early 90's. I do fly CO for other routes and cities, but LAX-IAH-JAX is definitely the most common route I have travelled on CO since that time (with the occasional routing LAX-EWR-JAX or LAX-CLE-JAX). I also had a few opportunites back in the CO/Eastern Airline OnePass alliance days, and work took me to Miami quite often as well.

I had utilized DL from time to time when they were partnered with CO, so the LAX-ATL-JAX is familiar, although I typically always avoided Hartsfield - especially during winter months when the chances for weather delays always increased

Not sure if you knew it, but for a short time, DL operated a once daily non-stop from LAX-JAX (!) up until a couple of years ago. LAX-JAX was a red-eye and would require my folks to get to the airport at around 6 AM, so I rarely flew it, but the JAX-LAX was nice. Got on in JAX - stepped off at LAX - so convenient.

I am hoping that the new airline sees a need for a non-stop between the 2. Would make my travel life so much easier!

You are correct, it seems that DL and CO have always been more sensitive to southern cities such as JAX, Gainesville, Pensacola, Orlando, Tallahassee, etc.

The new merged airline will be called United, but will have the current CO logo on tail and colors of Continental. CO management will be running the show but the airline's main hub will be in Chicago. The new airline will retain all hubs for both airlines (although CLE has been told they have to "earn" their keep to remain hub city), another plus for me, as now I will live in a hub city for my airline of choice

Its unknown exactly what will happen to routes the 2 airlines have in common as well as other routes they dont, but the general consensus is that for the most part, you probably wont notice a big difference. For example, if you want to get from JAX-LAX, you can get there any number of ways (via IAH, Denver, Chicago, DC, etc).

I would expect that you will soon see in JAX that CO and United counters will be merged (currently are a bit spaced out distance-wise at JAX airport). Some airports the transition will be harder , and some easier. At LAX, CO operates at Terminal 6, and United at 7, with some now vice versa. So there will be some integration of the 2 terminals. I dont imagine they will combine into a single one - the volume of passengers traveling on the new airline likely wont work in single terminal in airport as big as LAX

its been announced that the Presidents Club and Red Carpet Club will become United Club, but again some airports that have both will keep both, some airports one or the other may close, etc. Not a problem at JAX because all they have now is DL Crown Room.

As far as pricing goes, it just depends on dates of travel, etc. I am traveling LAX-JAX via IAH on CO March 11, with return on March 15, and the price I paid was around $350. I just looked and both CO (via IAH) and UA (via Chicago) are pricing within $2 of each other right at this time (although the fare is around $450 now), so pricing algorithms are also likely to eventually merge as well.

Hope that helps!

p.s. my family is all in Atlantic Beach - where are you

gawhite411

Sadly, it looks like so far rather than try to help UA reach CO standards, the approach has been to degrade the CO product to match the low level of the poor carrier, UA. While a number of UA apologists frequent this board and bash CO, any objective observer knows that the very best UA flight in the last ten years is worse than the median CO flight. Unfortunately, the merger has mostly been about bring CO down to UA's level.

nmarco2

^Agreed. I sat next to a CO pilot in December and he talked about how they built CO, over the last 20 years, up to be a great company. Now with the merger, its all going to sh** - his words not mine. Mergers are always complicated, and rarely does the customer see the benefit. It's mostly they nice pay offs at the upper management level.

channa

Not sure what you're talking about here. UA has never charged for a beverage in F, always had pillows in F, has tray linens and nut ramekins in F, and so on. Elites stuck in Y get E+. CO never had E+, and CO has been adamant against SWUs and CR1s until the UA partnership. The CO flyers should be thanking UA for the positive influence that UA has had on the CO program. UA has really opened CO's eyes in their partnership and now merger.

With few exceptions, we should hope that CO can rise above their marketing hype to match UA's standards in this merger.

PhlyingRPh

Are you sure about this? Many UA 1K's and GS's are a little concerned about the merger's impact on the quality of irops service we receive. Many of us are not happy about the potential of three (actually, four) cabin aircraft becoming two cabin aircraft and the upgrades we are used to receiving decreasing materially. Other UA elites are concerned about E+ being eliminated. I'm sure there are some things that CO excels at over UA but I have not as yet been able to identify them.

channa

Relax. Jeff says in this month's Hemispheres that there will be interior changes, and he thinks we'll like them.

Any reason we shouldn't trust the man?

RNE

None. How can our Dear Leader do any wrong?

cerealmarketer

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Getting back to northern vs southern focus...

While UA may have many pax friendly written policies -- the culture among flight crews is one of distrust -- which makes sense given the poor management history there going back at least 15 years.

The north tends to have a greater reliance on unions and that sense of conflict with mgmt. Every UA flight attendant I've spoken to immediately points out "we're not under a contract and haven't been for over a year. we're really worried about our work rules and travel benefits compared to Continental."

The union scripted them well.

I noticed the same thing with Northwest airlines during its merger with Delta. History of mgmt distrust, workers staying on the job longer than is rational, odd "benefits" like a lawn chair in the galley.

Fortunately at Delta the Southern attitude of let's work together, we dont need an arcane union won out. They chose to maintain Delta's union free workplace for flight attendants.

I've never seen a more proud and friendly / happy to be working group of US flight attendants than Delta legacy crews (Southwest also comes to mind and Houston based Continental crews).

For CO / UA...Continental flight crews generally seem happier to be at work. There are many great UA flight attendants but get the "wounded" and distrust vibe more than usual, which makes sense given the history of acrimony.

So answer to the original poster -- Delta may be your safe bet until we see how the Continental and United civil war reenactment shakes out. They've already gone through most of the merger pain.

channa

A distrust for management can be beneficial to the customer in various situations. I'll leave it at that.

Anyhow, I agree with your assessment of UA and its labor history. I also have noticed a markedly different tune amongst UA staff from six months ago. It seems that UA staff were very keen on Mr. $misek early on. Now after the whole pilot/RJ/arbitration issue COmbined with the fake smile/"working together" rubbish he's been spewing, I've noticed the UA staff no longer seem to have as positive an outlook on the man.

I wonder if CO management knows what they're getting themselves into. the "Rah! Rah!" rhetoric isn't gonna cut it with this crowd.

theblakefish

Sweet Potato Pie and I shut my mouth...

While CO does have good service to the Southern US, NW and DL have always had better service in their respective heydays, ymmv

mduell

I don't see the south being a focus for UA. With 4 major carriers hubbing there (ATLx2, CLT, MIA) it's a very competitive landscape and there's not a lot of demand out of podunk, MS. I'm not saying there will be drastic reductions, but I don't see expansion happening.

37 minutes for a domestic connection is legal on every airline and not a big deal during normal operations. A bit less padding for IRROPs, but it'd a bit to plan your schedule around those unless your schedule is highly inflexible.

How'd you arrive at this conclusion? The new management list is a nearly 50/50 mix of the two PM carriers.

It's a curious contrast: The distrustful, bitter, hateful, spiteful, surly United crews hang around for decades going to work every week while the happy, bright, joyful, most professional men and women in the business at Continental don't stick around for too long.

And I missed the part of your post that addressed the reason that CO's flight crews are heavily unionized with aggressive contracts (like that pilot scope clause). Why would such a positive work environment need such heavy handed limitations?

emcsweeney

I knew that wouldn't take long. I guess to each their own. Every time you mention CO charging for drinks in F, I can't help but think IMO that it's for drinks nobody really cares about...there's plenty others to choose from. The pillows, linens, and ramekins are a nice touch, but I'll take much better IFE, newer and much cleaner planes, and a much friendlier atmosphere myself. I have yet to not get an exit row seat when in Y, but I agree the additional E+ seats should insure all elites get a better seat. So far, the SWUs are about the only new thing from the merger I'm enjoying. From my early limited experiences with UA, I have yet to see anything positive about how UA employees view their jobs or their customers.

robyng

I'm in Ponte Vedra Beach - just a bit down the road from your family in Atlantic Beach.

I recall the non-stop Delta had JAX/LAX a while back. It was only once a day - and I don't know why Delta stopped running it (it was almost always full). There was some speculation on a JAX chat board a while back - but nothing that sounded definitive. Wouldn't count on the service coming back. If anything - we are losing some flights I liked (DL recently dropped service on some days on its non-stop mid-day JAX/LGA flight).

We've had only silver elite status one year - for my husband - the year we flew to Tokyo (we had one reward BF ticket - paid for the other). That was in 2006 - and prices have gone up a lot since then (BF then was in the $3500 range).

We never travel in the winter unless we absolutely have to - or are taking a trip to Miami (to see our accountant - friends - etc. - we used to live there). Of course - we're older and retired. A lot of people don't have that luxury. And I don't mind going through Hartsfield at all. It's big - but pretty organized. And it has smoking rooms inside the terminals (yes - I'm the last of the Mohicans - still smoking) - a very nice one at the international departure terminal. At IAH - you have to go outside to smoke - clear security coming back in. I always get nervous doing that. Think I've only been through CLE once (is it the airport with all the rocking chairs?). MIA seems to be dominated by AA these days. Don't know much about that airline either (we left MIA 15 years ago).

It's funny you mention the counters for CO and UA being a bit far apart at JAX - because it's a pretty small airport. Small townish too. Until 9/11 - there was a big parking lot right next to the terminal where you could park for free for 45 minutes to pick up your passengers. It's pretty pleasant flying into and out of JAX. During Thanksgiving and Christmas - JAX is less busy than a major airport on a normal day.

I haven't been in many clubs at many airports - but have been in a few - some really terrific ones - all outside the US - when we've been flying BF or First (mostly reward tickets).

The pricing on this particular JAX/LAX trip for us doesn't matter. It's our 40th anniversary - and although it is a somewhat stupid use of miles (compared to an international BF ticket or something like that) - I decided to spring for first class reward tickets. Wouldn't make any sense at all on CO (since almost half the trip each way is on an Embraer) - but we're doing Delta through Atlanta - and will be flying a real grown up airplane most of the way .

I guess what annoys me most about all of this is I really enjoyed the AMEX/CO/DL cooperation for many many years. Suspect a lot of those in the south did as well. And now I have to choose sides more or less - and will have fewer options in terms of earning miles and redeeming them. Oh well - such is life.

BTW - give a holler next time you're here. Especially if you play golf. We're members at the TPC Sawgrass (very nice play to play). Regards, Robyn

robyng

Why do you think CO is better than UA? And in what ways? Only time I ever flew UA more than once in a blue moon was perhaps 30 years ago - and we took trips from MIA to ski country out west at least once a year in the winter. And I do have a vague recollection of my UA miles (not tons - but enough to care about) being orphaned at some point - and having to get a Diner's Club credit card - so I could move the UA miles there - and then move them somewhere else so I could do something with them. Robyn