Retiring from Do organisation?
 

Idly musing on a Saturday morning, and I was wondering what would make you (or has made you) retire or take a break from do organisation?

:o

I started to type a long reply to this and then thought better of it.

I'd be happy to share my thoughts with existing Do organizers/organisers via PM though. ;)

I do have to say THANK YOU to those who take the time to organize/organise Dos. It can be a thankless job and yet (thankfully) the same folks keep stepping up to the plate to do it time and time again.

I have only done dinners for FT but, for another online group of friends, I did whole weekend events. I guess the biggest reason I stopped organizing was that you always seem to be in demand and can't really enjoy the activities yourself. That and the fact that there will always be people complaining about one thing or another. They really don't realize the time and effort that you put into organizing these things, or how difficult it can be to try and arrange things that will be acceptable to the majority.

I have nothing but admiration and respect for people who step up to organize Do's. To try and organize a group like ours is probably worse than trying to herd cats... :D

While I have not attended the Do's I have heard nothing but good things about certain ones and their organization: the Seattle Do's and London Do's come to mind.

I truly do appreciate the organizers who give so much to FT.

William

I hosted several Do's in the 90's, but no more. The first few Do's were populated by some great people who were not only relatively like-minded, but also generous themselves. Then as Flyertalk became more popular the inevitable happened. People were who were not as much like-minded and not so generous started attending Do's.

So hosting Do's became less fun. Nobody wants to go through all that effort to find that some of their guests can't be happy with your arrangements. Then, in some cases, even attended Do's became less than pleasant. It's nothing unique to Flyertalk. It's just human nature. The natural evolution is that groups of people who meet on Flyertalk and like each other now have private Do's. Purists might not like it, but again, its just human nature.

can be:D, partner that with today’s common commitment-phobia doesn’t make it easy for Do organizers.

I’ve done a few, some have been great and others have fallen flat. I could imagine if I was a first time Do organizer and it fell flat, I may not be inclined try again.

To answer Jenbel’s question, While posting Do’s with me ebbs & flows depending upon my schedule, I haven’t taken a break and don’t intend to as I really enjoy meeting my Flyertalk brethren.

--

I couldn't agree more.

My thanks to those who tirelessly organize DO's as our group, expert as we all are on travel ;), can be hard to please.

Just a sidebar on DO's for those who inhabit other Internet Bulletin Boards.

Is a DO unique to FT because of our mission statement as frequent travelers who know how to travel right? Or do face-to-face meets happen at other IBB's as well?

Just curious.

Kind of Catch 22. How does one meet any new FT'ers then?

I don't believe you are one of the "elder" FT'ers who believes that all the "worthwhile" FT'ers have been met

They happen other places as well. The ones I used to organize were for players of an online role-playing game (Gemstone III). We would do an annual event to the Maryland Renn festival. The company that owned the game also started having an annual event in St. Louis. Everquest (another MMORPG) also has several during the year that attract people from all over the world.

as long as people are happy with the DOs I organize and as long as there are attendants, I go on. at a precedent DO, you feel if people want more, if they claim for a next year edition ... if I had to pay for a DO out of my pocket because some FTer would try to cheat at some dinner - it would probably be the last one or at least I'd have to consider to do it in private for people I know and I can trust - and not on FT and therefor open to everybody.

I know of get togethers on other IBBs as well. airliners.net meet from time to time at Zurich and I guess that people on other IBB want to see who's behind a handle and therefor try to meet.
but I don't expect others than FTer to fly for a weekend several thousand miles :p


edited to add: I hope that some wrong directions and some stairs didn't make people not want to come to my DOs ;)

It can get a bit tiresome, there are always the inevitable complaints about some aspect - even cost (even though sometimes the event is actually subsidized (intentionally) by the organizers - and I've even had a chargeback filed because the payer (not an official Flyertalker but a friend of a FTer) forgot what the payment was for).

Another IBB that I frequent, many of the members actually travel together on cruises for vacation - this was the 5th year in a row that we've done that.

I started out chatting on BBSs in the early 90's, DOs were held back then.... they were local since everyone didn't travel. We called them GTs (Get Togethers).

I can't imagine organizing a do for the FTers. Many members are whiners. I at times stop reading the DL forum because of all the whiners. My thanks to all those who put so much into these DOs! ^

I usually only organize the Annual London Prez Weekend Dos, and did the post-Freddies LA Do, and some occasional LA dinner dos. They're fun & you get to see people you know & meet new people who all travel and/or have this crazy interest in travel.

Having said that, it does take a lot of organization (something I don't think all attendees really realize), and there are invariably a few complaints (some so minor you want to shake your head; some such a pain that you want to say ok, then YOU do it next time).

And of course then you get the folk who short on dinner and/or other things, such as rsvp'ing & not showing when the host had to outlay some $$ & then not paying. I had that happen 2x (dinner short) at the London Prez weekend Dos, and even last year at the London MegaDo when I helped out another FTer who has ignored requests for repayment, and occurred at Freddies post-LA Do. Hmm, maybe I need to rethink doing Dos if I'm footing the bill for some of my fellow FTers???

Re: the 'purists' getting together for their own private dos :rolleyes: Just sounds like a group of folk who have met through FT & like each other & like traveling together; I don't think at that point it's a Them Do or FT Do. And doesn't necessarily mean they don't attend FT Dos, as I've seen some of the said 'purists' at dos. And really it's not that big a deal because while they're not fond of all other FTers, not all other FTers are fond of them either so they're not necessarily missed ;) :D And there's such a variety of Dos at all times of the year at all parts of the globe; there's something for everyone.

Anyway, with each Do I organize I try to learn from previous ones - tighten up the parameters so no misunderstanding, pick places that you can do individual bills, and 'God grant me the serenity to know what I can change & not change' or whatever that saying is :) .

I do want to give a shout-out & kudos to sandiego1k, jenbel & wingnut for organizing the London MegaDo. Dos of that scope just boggle the mind, and I wouldn't blame all 3 of them should they decide to retire (but hope they don't & that we'll see another one in a couple of years).

wingless asked my sister a few years back, 'so what do you think of your sister being involved w/ FT?'. My sister, 'don't know. never heard of it. is it a cult?' :D Well yes it is, and I'm proud to be a member of it, so yup you'll still me attending some dos & probably even organizing a few. (Note: my sister is now up on FT, so when I whine about my mileage balance declining she tells me to do a mileage run :eek: ).

Cheers.

Well, I thought I retired after the last Catman DO (in 2001.)

That one was a lot of work and organization (thanks to help from some friends it came off) and some drama. When it was over I said "can't top that one so why even try." Plus there will be plenty of other organizers and DO's down the line.

I had visions of a possible Catman DO 4... If the last one has 84 attendees I could pass 100 or more. That's a lot of people to handle. Some could get lost in the background. Now putting together a big event is close to impossible for me. time wise. I have a business that I can't just shut down. I have friends I want to see. I want to spend time with my Eddie.

It's a lot of time and effort. Not that I couldn't do another CMD but I rather not.

For awhile I did retire from the F-T scene. But then I kind of missed the company of F-T friends and meeting new ones. SO I put together Soup Do's and other little events in the NYC area. These are smaller events where everyone gets a chance to talk and be heard and I can talk to people.

They are also easy to do: pick a place, make a reservation, make an F-T post and hope someone shows up! :)

I salute and give PAWS UP to those who can do the bigger events.

Jenbel, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, as you are one of the stars of Do organization.

I have murmured from time to time that FT might become a victim of its own success. What do I mean? The turnout that some Dos get - and the professionalism with which some are run - could intimidate folks from hosting.

When Captain Mike and I hosted the 2001 San Diego Do, I had only met 3 FTers. I remember leaving work that day, wondering why I was giving up my weekend to throw a party for 60 strangers. It turned out brilliantly, and was a lot of fun for both attendees and hosts.

We had 40 folks at the Saturday night dinner. It was quite a challenge finding a restaurant that would book a private dining area for that large a group. Now, we have Dos such as London where we've had more than 200 attend, and 125-ish at the Saturday dinner. I honestly don't know where I'd look for such space in San Diego, other than a boring hotel banquet room.

There are several dilemnas for the party throwers:

1. You have no idea how many will attend. It could be 5 to 200 (record so far). It's easy to organize for 5 or 10 or 20; it's not for 50 and more. And when you don't know going in how it will draw, you can't figure out if you even have event space in your town that's appropriate.
2. Do organizers have set the bar high. I salute the Zurich and SFO Do organizers, the last big events. Wow! If you followed either thread, the sophistication with which they were their events was amazing. They had events worthy of professional party planners.

Both of these can intimidate folks.

As an organizer, I've found that the great majority of folks who come are very appreciative of the organizers' effort. I've always liked the shout outs folks give after the event. I was new to FT in 2001, hadn't expected the accolades, and the appreciation made the effort worthwhile. There are always some who grumble, particularly as events are being organized. You simply have to have a thick skin.

For those who are considering organizing an event, a local dinner is a great way to dip your toes into the water. Start a list of every handle you see from your home area. Send out PMs to folks (as many never come into Community). We've had some delightful San Diego dinners, pulling from 20 to 40 folks.

Meeting other travel junkies face to face is an enormously rewarding part of FT. It certainly has enriched my life.

I tried retiring once, but as it turns out, I'm too much of a control freak to let someone else plan "my" do. Maybe I'll try retiring again after SeaDoo 10. ;)

Well... I started the thread because I have been toying with taking a break. I loved doing the Mega Do and I loved doing the Island Do 2 this year. But the others I've done, I find as I get better at organising, I get less organised (because I know I can leave things later and later) which causes me more stress. It is a bizarre inverse reaction.

I'm also aware of, for want of a better term, do inflation going on. When I started, most people were perfectly happy just to meet for drinks. Now I find an expectation that I will organise a dinner... and now even afternoon events.

At the same time, I'm also aware that, like missy, I might be too much of a control freak to give up... the thought of someone else doing 'my' annual Christmas BA drinkies :eek: :mad: :o

In the long term, I will still continue to do Island dos, and possibly megas if anyone wants to do one again ;) I'll decide about the other stuff in due course. But this is the first time in ages I don't actually have a Do on the go...

I think you misunderstood what Stimpy was trying to say. I believe he means that there is a contingent of FT 'purists' who believe that any event involving FTers, should be posted and open to all. I remember early into my FT experience, I had some of those purist feelings. No one wants to hear about a fun party of Fters that they weren't invited to. But it didn't take long for me to realize that attitude was kind of silly. If I want to have dinner with one of my FT friends, or 6, or 12 of my FT friends, I shouldn't feel obligated to invite all 100,000+ members just to be PC.

I do think it can be tricky, and sometimes bad form, to hold a mini-private do in the middle of someone elses public do.

I've hosted plenty of public as well as private do's. Which one of those I choose at the time, is usually based in how much control I want over the number of attendees. For example, I hosted a BBQ at my house at the end of SeaDoo. I specifically chose Sunday afternoon, because generally, the majority of the attendees are gone by then, and the number is manageable. This year, I had just about the same number of attendees at the BBQ as I had at the main event. Luckily, it was only about 30, and I think it worked quite nicely. But had 60 people shown interest, I would have been forced to scramble and change plans, because they wouldn't have all fit.

That can be nipped in the bud. ;)

Them: What are the plans for dinner after drinks?

You: I hadn't really thought of dinner... but what a great idea. Let me know what you put together so I can post it on the thread.

:D


The first couple years, I tried to have every detail scheduled, then I realized that these are adults who are well travelled. They know how to rent a car, find a bus schedule, call a cab, or decide how they want to spend their afternoon. Decide what you want to plan, then let other people do add on's... as long as they don't conflict with yours.. it seems to work out fine.

I've been involved with online groups since 1982 or so. It was pretty common to have two or three GT's (Get Togethers) a year for each local BBS. Some were just pizza parties, gun shooting parties, large rocket launchings or the occasional leafleting of a bothersome poster. :D

I've bookmarked this thread to come back to after ZQN Do (link in my sig).

Indeed this has been the most difficult aspect for me (so far) with ZQN Do. I've changed arranged activities a few times as numbers fluctuated up and down, and ruled out some activities that in hindsight could have been done after the provider advised of a maximum number they can cater for that I felt was potentially too low.

Organising a Doo for 50+ is enough to put anyone off... :D

I too worry about Doo inflation... gourmet dinners, delivery of packs to hotels, laminated or airside badges - all very nice, but quite onerous for the organiser(s), especially while trying to juggle work and family and normal life with travel and Doos.

Seems to me that 1 person cannot hope to put together a polished professional event. A team is needed. But is this what a Doo is really about?

For me a Doo is about meeting FTers in a new location, some old friends, some new, picking up a few piles & moints along the way and having a good soak of local poison and a bit of an adventure... leaving me with some memories, some photos and a world class hangover. Equally happy drinking yak's milk in a back street in Almaty as in the exec lounge in the Mariott in Zurich on this basis.

I was very relieved to see the Pop the Cork Doo emerge... the number of people who wanted me to organise another Shamrock Doo was quite frightening. Whenever it does happen, there will be sticky badges and dinners paid by the table. No Eventbrite for me... but each to their own. The Doo has become an important part of the FT experience for many of us. Long may it continue.

Brooklyn Reality Tour
 

:eek:Were you waiting for me to chime in? :o :D

The 2007 tour was the 7th BRT. What folks don't consider is that besides these things becoming tiring and dare I say ho-hum, they're a lot of work.

First you have to pick a date (that fits into your schedule); then, hope that something doesn't come up that will interfere with the arranged date.
Then, with so many repeat riders :eek:, I have to worry about
adjusting the trip highlights. Lord knows that repeaters shouldn't be bored.

After last years diasterious tour, (I made a few changes, or should I say that I messed with success), I decided to call it quits after 7 tours.

After a conversation with 3 people (one who posted above), I decided to not be dramatic, and go for #8 in the Spring of 2008 (May or June).

Next year I will go back to the 'tour as usual'. I won't try to change the tour for the repeaters (some 3, 4 and 5 timers :eek: :o ). The 2008 BRT will operate just like the previous ones. :eek: ;)

Jenbel, these DOs are in our blood. All of the DO organizers are the type that want to make Flyertalk a better place.

FYI, the first Brooklyn Tour (the name changed to Brooklyn Reality Tour when magic111 had an idea to name it after the Kramer Reality Tour of Seinfeld fame), was an offshoot of CatmanDo 3. It was just a way for 7 people to kill the day before the CMD3. So you see Catman, this alleycat still acknowledges its early beginnings.

Sorry for rambling. But if you want more rambling... feel free to join me and 24 others in 2008.

I decided to total up what my do total actually is - 14 dos since 2004 :eek: And that doesn't count the ones I've been an associate do advisor on, providing help, advice and conference calls on...

These have ranged in scale from drinks for 5, up to dinners for 40-50, to the Mega Do (where we had a great team) to an entire weekend away on a remote Scottish island. Currently, if I have less than 40 turn-out, it's a small do.

No wonder I'm tired!!! It does get easier... and it doesn't get easier.

Hey, good idea.

Maybe I'll organize one for some of the regulars in Travel Safety/Security. :)

20 years ago you could just head outside the city limits of Phoenix, find a gully and start plinking, or open wide up depending on what you had. Given that these areas are now full of housing developments, it'd probably be a bit harder. In fact, many of the activities would almost be considered terrorist activities (launching a 8 foot tall rocket at 1000 miles an hour freaks some people out). It's strange to think about this, but one of the wildest guys there, was in the security department at Sky Harbor.

paging alanw! :D

You are sheer evil! :D :D ;)

It's funny you bring that up because that does seem to be a more recent occurance. When I attended my first DO (hosted by bollar and studley in 2001) in my own town, I remember being a bit shocked that besides the two night's dinners and some very cool planned airport activities (one mid-afternoon on Friday and one late afternoon on Saturday) that there were no other things. I remember thinking (as a novice DO attendee) "how are folks going to know where to shop or what to go see or what to do".

Several "veterans" assured me that FTers were a very resourceful group and that folks would find ways to fill the off hours and find people to do things with.

They were right.

I'm not sure when the tide turned, but I've noticed so many DOs now that fill entire days from morning sightseeing to lunch to afternoon stuff to pre-dinner drinks to dinner to post-dinner drinks to post-post dinner drinks.

It honestly makes my head spin.

At the last DO (and I don't count the local dinners that I've been helping organize for six years among the "DOs" I've been involved with), I had a person calling my hotel room at a very early (pre-breakfast-ish) hour wanting to know where we were and what we were doing. (This after I went out of my way to NOT stay in the same hotel as everyone else and not tell folks where I was.) They apparently called every hotel in the area until they found me. At others where I've been an attendee, I've made plans to do things during the day with other non-FT friends and I've apparently offended some of these "purists" because they ran into me and I did not include them in my plans.

I think you can't please all the people all the time. And its why when I attend or organize (or at least think about it) a DO, I like to leave in plenty of free time where people can do their own thing. A dinner here, a lunch there - nice events where folks can meet and mingle and then subdivide into smaller groups where they are most comfortable. Folks can (and will) find ways to occupy themselves on the road.

And if they can't, perhaps they don't "fit in" as well with FT as they would like to believe and maybe an organized bus tour with a travel agency would be a better way to see a new city?

Finally, I *do* commend those of you who organize the mega-dos. I think you guys have probably (unintentionally) raised the bar for all of us. Welcome packets, prizes, sponsors, special websites - there wasn't much of this going on when I first started attending DOs. Now I fear its what folks have come to expect - which is a far departure from the DOs I used to know and love - just a few likeminded folks flying halfway around the world to break bread together in a new city. It definitely puts a lot of pressure to perform for the rest of us thinking about organizing - and it may have raised the expectations of those who attend many events.

Actually, waaaay back when in the old Prodigy days, a group of us oranized a DO in Disneyworld to occur the first or second weekend of December, in the slowest season, to coincide with the holiday decorations. It has now grown to immense proportions and has sponsors :eek: :eek:

Before that I remember getting together with a smaller group in one of the Disney hotels with a few unofficial reps from Disney, to shoot the breeze.

This had to been in 1992 or 1993 and the groups were very small at that time - most people did not have computers in their homes and if they did, they certainly didn't go out onto Prodigy's bulletin boards.

Those people were the most like those on FT today. A little better education and a little better off than most.

I'm still friends with a few of them to this day.

I even managed to find one right here on FT - good 'ole Dan Hammer is an old prodigy buddy from the travel boards there (tho not the disney boards).

There can be a belief that do organiser=travel agent. I worked very hard to avoid that on Island Do 2, and it worked fairly well, in that most people handled their own flight and hotel bookings. I'm hoping to do the same for Island Do 3, but because I'm the local expert on what to do, I will identify things to do which groups might go off and do together.

I think techgirl is correct, and the Megas have led the way on inflation, partly because they have had to get more professional with the numbers involved. Things which work no problem for 20 get difficult to cope with for 50+ (for example bill payment at restaurants - above about 10 people, we'll split the bill evenly (except for those that had no wine) and above about 40-50 I'd much rather do pre-payment, to stop the inevitable people who have ignored the requests to bring cash to pay with, and you suddenly find you have 15-20 people handing over cards, when the restaurant can do max 5!) Websites are easier to show information on (threads are great, but there is a point where they just get too unwieldy. And I'm sure we all know how many PMs etc we have to respond to giving information which is already there - websites do IMHO cut down on that a lot). But there is also a feeling of responsibility if someone is chosing to fly in TATL or even from Asia/Australasia to make it worthwhile for them to come that distance. I think one of the worst things you could say to a do organiser is that it wasn't worth going...

Well there are limits. How many Flyertalkers are there now? I'd love to meet them all but that isn't really possible as I have a life. I do meet new people from time to time and I of course "meet" and have great discussions with many people here in cyberspace.

However there is one negative point to FT Do's that hasn't been mentioned yet. They are mostly on weekends. For those of us who travel on business during the week and have families, the weekend is sacrosanct. If I were alone, I would love to jet away to spend an interesting weekend with some people I haven't met yet. However as I am not alone I prefer to jet home to loved ones instead.

All the Do's I hosted back in the 90's were in my home town so it was easy and I lived in a desirable destination which was easy to travel to (LGB). Now I live out in the French countryside which is nice, but not easy to get to and we don't have a bunch of large chain hotels.

Every once in a while someone puts up a note about a mid-week meeting for drinks in some city and I just happen to be in that city. In that case I ALWAYS try to attend. I wish there were more of these.

I agree. It seems like we used to do more of these - weeknight dinners in various locales. I probably attended at least two dozen of these in my first couple of years on FT and it made time on the road alone that much more fun. Admittedly, I've posted less of these myself for two reasons - one, because my own travel has changed and I do more day trips and quick turn overnights now and two, because I've made a lot of friends already over the years in various cities and so a lot of times we just get together and probably don't do a good job of remembering how we met and to bring new FTers into the fold.

Maybe the tide needs to turn starting with some of us. We've entertained lots of guests in Dallas during the week do to the Monthly Gathering Thread. I know DC and Chicago have done the same with their mid-week dinners (not really DOs, just get togethers). Maybe its time for more of us (and I say more, because I know there are some people who regularly post dinners when they are traveling - SweetWillie, lucky9876coins, and BenjaminNYC are three that come to mind) to look ahead at our travel schedules and try to organize smaller dinner parties and things like we used to do all the time.

I'm reading this thread with interest, as our local FT group has considered hosting a STL Do, and we can't quite bring ourselves to jump off the bridge.

I have organized a number of events, large and small, for other orgnanizations, and I have to say the whiners can drive one nuts.

We did a convention in Charleston this spring, it was lovely, the City is beautiful and the weather was grand, except for one overnight rain.

Of course, someone posted in the forum of this group that she was upset we had done nothing about the puddles in the parking lot of the host hotel!

Our next con is in London. I have instructed the local organizer to remove all puddles from the general London area.

Well, you know TSA would find out who were attending. They would SSSS them and they would all miss their flts. to the DO.

Seriously, I just returned from the Third CO DO sponsored by Cigarman. I could see how much work it was for him and all the CO employees who volunteered to help.

It was amazing and a lot of fun. My husband didn't want to go so I brought a girlfriend. I kept having to tell her that it wasn't as strange as it sounds, flying half way across the country to meet a bunch of people that you have never met, but you actually know.

I am going to attend the one being organized by SAS people at the end of Nov. as it is going to be in NYC/EWR.

Paragraph 1 a very valid point. I've heard a # of FT regulars, especially those w/ younger kids, say the same thing.

Also agree w/ the 2nd paragraph. And to say, I like it when folk such as SweetWillie, lucky, Stimpy, etc, post they're going to be in the area or have a long layover. Besides seeing (or meeting) them, gives local folk an excuse to get together. Surprisingly enough in LA we don't get together that often, primarily due to the large geographical area. But if someone posts they'll be in town & where, there are usually a few who are around who can meet up w/ the visitor and meet or catch up w/ each other.

Cheers.

I'm active on a few other IBBs (only one of which is travel-related) and they also have DOs, although that's not what they call them.

I belong to two other on-line groups that have real life get-togethers, and I know that my kids hook up with their WOW friends all around the country. The internet is certainly changing the way we make friends and view the world. Hurray for that. ^

I haven't really organized a DO in a while because we are just way too busy traveling, working, dancing, and enjoying being old working stiffs. ;) Maybe when we retire we will get back into the DO arranging game once again.

I do believe very strongly, however, that any publicly posted DO must be open to anyone who wants to come, and that to exclude people you don't like (or for any other reason) is totally tacky and anti-community. If there is someone at a DO that you don't like, go sit somewhere else. There is never enough time at DOs to talk to the people you really like, let alone worry about those who don't make your "A" list, so include them all. Does that make me a purist? :confused: If so, then I am a purist.

Having said that, I also believe it is perfectly alright, and even wonderful to, arrange for private meetings with FlyerTalkers with whom you have become friends or share special interests. Sometimes when you are on the road you just don't have the time, energy, or inclination to put together a real DO, but still want to enjoy the company of one or two FlyerTalkers for lunch, dinner or drinks.

Enjoy life! It's all good.

The couple of get togethers that I have had a helping hand in went pretty well-but there are always"special"people that just have to be a little too "special"to be worthy of my giving a rat's ....

I remember one "special"person IM'ing me from outside the restaurant we were holding the do at-wanting me to come out and meet him :confused:
I have organized many internet group get togethers-and unless there are strong friendships formed at these things they just kinda fall apart.

I also belive in the saying" familiarity breeds contemp"t and that having too many get togethers with the same folks involved gets tiresome.

Also you really need a good mix of extroverts and introverts-too many of one or the other and the evening can end very quickly(or one wishes it would end more quickly)the guests do not all need to be a-listers,but the a- listers should not be a--h---s