I would agree with this with one small amendment. I don't expect that organisers should be expected to allow anyone to attend. I think they are expected to allow any FTer to attend. Subtle, but important difference. I won't allow people who are not FTers either through permanent suspension or because they've never joined if I have any suspicion that there will be a problem - I owe that to my FT attendees, to ensure they have an enjoyable experience. I've faced the situation once, where a permabanned member asked if they could attend a Do, and after some discussion, it was allowed.

For me, if a do is public, then any FTer should be welcome.

I'm in. ^


As for the FT DO's..I've only been to one, the (relatively) small San Diego DO back in May. It was a blast though, I met some really cool folks and picked the brains of some truly experienced frequent fliers. I applaud all of those who take the time, energy, and money to plan out a gathering of relative strangers. You guys rock!

I've learned two things:

1. A Meet in the US is a lot easier to arrange than one overseas.
2. Meals should not be fixed menus/fixed prices.

If you schedule a Meet (sorry, I don't like the word "Do" for some reason) in the US, most people attending will not have to fly more than a few hours to get there. More than that, if you arrange the basics for them they will be able fill in their free time by themselves.

This is not true for an overseas Meet. When I set up the Tel Aviv Meet I realized that I could not ask people to fly 13+ hours in each direction and just have dinner. Instead, I arranged a walking tour of Tel Aviv for the first day and bus tours of Israel for the following three days (in addition to the main dinner). The big problem with this was that the bus was a set price -- and until I knew how many people were coming, I didn't know how much each person would have to pay.

And, of course, people were very hesitant to commit until they know what they would be paying.

At the time of the Tel Aviv Meet I had already arranged (together with others) the first two PBI-FLL Meets. These were fixed menu/fixed price deals. So was the Venice Meet which I attended (and partly helped to set up).

The PBI-FLL dinners were not very expensive. The Venice Meet dinner was considerably more costly. Moreover, not being one to enjoy creepy-crawly things from the sea, there was very little on the table that I would eat. In fact, one bowl which was put out contained some black things (I have absolutely no idea of what they were) that looked so disgusting that I couldn't even sit at the table while they were being served. I wound up paying a good sized bill and leaving the table very hungry.

I decided that would not happen at any future Meet that I would be arranging. When I started negotiations with the restaurant for the Tel Aviv Meet, the owner wanted a fixed menu/fixed price. The selection he offered was fairly good but the price was higher than most of us would be paying if we ordered whatever we wanted and paid for it individually. I insisted on that and the owner reluctantly agreed.

When it came to the Third Annual PBI-FLL Meet, the restaurant owner, again, wanted fixed menu/fixed price. I was working through two local FTers who handled the actual negotiations and came to me for approval. I pointed out to them that the price he wanted was higher than we would be paying even if everyone ordered the most expensive dinner on the menu.

I insisted that we be allowed to order whatever we wanted and that each person (or couple) be given separate checks. Again, the manager did not like this idea (less profit and more work for him) but he gave in. This meant that if you only wanted a sandwich you would pay $7 but if you wanted the largest dinner it would run $18. It also meant that nobody would have to pass on the dinner because it was too costly for his budget (here, I had in mind mostly FTers who were also students).

It worked out so well that when we went back to him for the upcoming 4th Annual Meet, he agreed to have the same arrangement with no argument.

In the end, we have the following arranged:

1. Drinks in two sessions on Friday night. The first will be from 5:30 to 7:30 in the Embassy Suites bar. Most of those attending will be staying at the ES and drinks will be free for them during those hours.

2. From 7:30 to 9, you arrange for your own dinner. There are a large variety of restaurants within walking distance of the ES, so this should be no problem.

3. From 9 until ??? we will have the second drinking session at a bar near the hotel.

4. Saturday, during the day, nothing is arranged but suggestions for various activities will be offered. Most attending will have their own (rented) cars and will be free to either go off by themselves or caravan together.

5. Saturday night we will have the big dinner. It is going to be on the patio of a BBQ place that specializes in ribs and pork chops. This, of course, is fitting for a Meet which will involve a Lebanese and an Israeli. We will also have doorprizes -- with everyone guaranteed to be a winner.

6. Sunday will feature shopping tours of the Sawgrass Mills Mall ( Florida's largest) and the Festival Flea Market (very downscale but enjoyable for lowlives like myself).

In short, the Meet will be fun, will require the minimum of arrangements, and will be either very expensive, medium priced, or very inexpensive -- depending on what each member wants.

Randy Petersen's presence, of course, will be the icing on the cake, and comes at no extra cost. :D

Interesting that you felt that there were such limited options. After the mixed antipasti the first course was mixed seafood risotto. The "little black things" as you should know are calamari. The main course was roast chicken breast. Then there were grilled vegetables, mixed salad, chocolate dessert, sorbet, unlimited wine and mineral water. This for 35E a person when the dollar was quite strong (including tax and tip).

Originally Posted by obscure2k
Great news!! Found restauarant which is 5 minute walk from hotel. We had dinner there last night and it was wonderful. Returned today with Marco Musco to discuss FT dinner on 11-20. Owner charging 35Euro PP for 5 course meal, and this will also include mineral water, Prosecco wine, coffee and dessert. He is giving us the restaurant for the entire evening. We will have the entire restaurant just for the FTrs. This is a phenomenal deal and I am certain that everyone will be very pleased (even Dov & Punki). The name of the restaurant is Osteria Bea Vita. I suggest that those FTrs not staying at AI Mori meet at Ai Mori at 7:30 in the bar and we can all walk over there together. Reservation is 8:00 PM, dress is quite casual. I feel very good about this place and the decision to cancel Vini da Gigio. If you recall, Vini da Gigio was charging 52Euros pp and did not include water, prosecco or coffee. IMHO, the food at Bea Vita is as good as Vino Da Gigio.

O2K, please do not take that as a criticism but of the things you listed above the only ones I would have touched were the chicken breast, the chocolate dessert, the wine and the water. In mid-November 2004, the Euro was trading for $1.29, meaning that I paid $45 for those items.

Tastes vary. Note that I did not comment on what others felt about the dinner, undoubtedly many felt they got an excellent bargain -- but that was not the case for someone who doesn't like either seafood or veggies.

Moreover, it is always possible that even a person who loves everything on the fixed offering/fixed price menu is not particularly hungry (or doesn't feel well) on the night of the dinner. He, certainly, is not going to be happy to fork out a full share while he sits there and ignores almost everything on the table.

Hence my decision to always arrange these dinners where each person can order whatever the restaurant has on the menu and to pay only for what he ordered.

It is true enough that restaurants prefer going the other way. The manager might argue that it is too difficult for the kitchen to prepare such a variety (in fact, they generally do say that). It is not, however, true.

Right now, we have 64 people attending the PBI-FLL Meet. Why is it any more difficult for the restaurant to give each one what he wants than it would be for it to service 64 people who come in at the same time as individuals, couples, or families? As long as the restaurant has enough table space to handle X number of people, it also has the kitchen facilities to provide them with their personal choices from the menu.

This thread is rapidly going off course, and will probably disappear soon.

That said, if you want to participate in a FT dinner, you pay your share, and often a bit beyond that. You NEVER let the organizers pay out of pocket and you NEVER ask for special treatment.

I often don't care for the menu at a FT dinner, but that is MY problem, not that of the organizers. If I chose to join the event, I pay and eat what I can. (I once paid $26 USD for nothing but tap water, not even wine or soda. The point is, everyone else thought the food was wonderful and had a great time, even ordered seconds, which is what it is all about. But I didn't do that one the second time around :))

My random thoughts on DOs and why I hope people keep organizing them
 

OK, I'm a DO whore. I've been to more than I care to admit. For me it's a chance to travel, do my own thing in the area, and meet some old and new friends for dinner. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

But there is always that magic when someone shows me their city/country in a way that wouldn't otherwise be possible. Berlin, Brooklyn, and Tel Aviv come to mind.

London MegaDo and Zurich were in a totally different category: perfect planning and organization made me forget my plans and just go with the group because it was so well done. The Zurich Angel Service really let you leave your mind in the cupboard while you enjoyed the day. EZE beyond Gaucho100K's winetasting was very casual, but seemed to work just fine.

Zurich and London are easy cities for Americans, but some of the British and Swiss FTers I met there were so incredibly polite and gracious it made me remember how wonderful life can be if you just make a bit of an effort.***

For me, this is what makes FlyerTalk DOs so fantastic. Kudos to the all the organizers, past and present.

I used to belong to another online group that had a Gathering (50 women) once a year, but they expected the organizers of organize EVERYTHING.* Later a California group started, which included husbands and SO's, but it was even worse -- the organizers now had to take care of and entertain husbands, SOs, and God forbid, teens!!!! **

This experience made FT look like a dream! Set a location, people will get there. Or not. If I can get to Lubljiana via Prague by air, bus and train, ANYONE can get ANYWHERE if they just make an effort. I'm a bad FTer with poorly planned connections, overpriced tickets, missed upgrades, lots of confusion, but I do get there, in the right place, on time, and ready to go. So why are people treating the organizers like travel agents? This is unreal.

~Pat


* Airfare, ground transport, hotel, meals, currency exchange (US-Canada), roommates, entertainment, games, crafts (?), a "hospitality" room with free sodas and snacks, personal grocery shopping, and "scholarship" funds for those unwilling or unable to pay, etc. In Dallas we had Neiman-Marcus come in for makeovers - and one of our group brought out her Mary Kay kit and tried to tell the Versace folk how things should be done. What a fun day that was!

**Let me tell you, Pismo Beach will never see another Jimmy Buffet bufffet potlluck for 75 people with other motel guests trying to crash the party. Not on my watch. The I'm Grateful I'm Not Dead potluck the previous year didn't draw nearly the crowd of Margaritaville. Maybe the headbands turned them off. Or the noise of the blenders got them excited. Go figure.

*** Hey, most days my life at work and home is filled with old, bitter, angry people who somehow feel cheated out of something they are unable to define, but they sure want it back, whatever it was. I don't want to become one of them, and I thank those of you who help me see the better side of life. That's why I travel.

A huge thank you to everyone who has ever organized a DO that I have attended. I have no idea how may there have been, but would not be surprised to find that the number way exceeds 200 or 300 parties, especially if you include private, and serendipitous get togethers with FlyerTalkers all around the world. I have had a wonderful time at each and every one of these celebrations--from the first one in Seattle in August of 1999 to the last one in Seattle in August of 2007. (Good food at your house, Missy) :) Well I guess the last one was actually Saturday night in Boston, where we had the tremendous privilege of hanging out with one of the FT originals.

I must, however, offer extra special thanks to Dovster, for putting together the Israel DO. Visiting Jerusalem had always been a dream for us and we may never have done so had Dov not made it so easy and comfortable.

I don't know Jenbel if I can agree with you that attendees should be FlyerTalkers before the come to DOs or while they are at DOs. Some of the most fun and interesting FlyerTalkers I know have at one point or another in time been "permanently banned" from FT, or only became FlyerTalkers after they attended DOs. Think Jailer, who was drug along to the original PIP by his cousin. :D :D When I first looked at the PIP Express seat map (we booked the whole top deck of a 747 for this trip) I will admit that I can remember being leary of this non-FlyerTalker in our midst, but in the end he has turned out to be one of my very most favorite and funny FT friends. Boy was I ever wrong.

I suspect that if we open our hearts and minds to really get to know one another, we will find that there is a lot of good in all of us. We may not all end up being best friends, but, unless someone is inherently evil (and I don't believe there are many, if any, inherently evil types on FT) we can all learn from one another. That is the beauty of this crazy community. Embrace it.

Very well put, Jenbel. Permanently suspended members are not in fact FTers. They are former members of FlyerTalk. Yes, DOs should be open to all FlyerTalk members, but, as with any private organization, if your membership has been revoked for cause you are not and ought not be welcome at gatherings that take place under the aegis of that organization.

Moreover, I can't understand why anyone whose FlyerTalk membership was permanently removed for cause would want to come to a DO for members. I sure wouldn't want to show my face if I had been removed from FT for cause.

That's not actually what I said. I said that I reserved the right to refuse admittance to a do for non FTers (whether because they have never joined, or because they've been told to leave), if I could foresee an issue. I'll look at each case individually. For partners of FTers, it is usually a given that they could attend. For banned former FTers, I'll investigate whether they want to attend to cause trouble, whether they have caused trouble at other dos etc, before making that decision. It's just another of those decisions that make do organisation such fun at times ;)

Drawing this thread back on topic, since we've drifted off very far, some of which I'll hold my hands up to :o (my co-mods are frowning at me!), I think some of the previous discussion exemplifies why do organisation is so tiring, and why there is a certain wastage amongst do organisers. Dinners are probably (at least in my experience) the most vexed areas of do organisation, where people's expectations are least likely to mesh up - just as a few examples from Mega do - where before the do, we had someone complaining that we weren't taking everyone to a Michelin starred, £100/head type place, versus someone else who thought paying $20 for a dinner in London was outrageously expensive.... and then someone else who turned up in an Indian restaurant for dinner and only then told us they were allergic to coriander/cilantro :eek:

Do attendees - don't you just love 'em :D

But not all at the same time - that's the problem. Now I'm sure that you're happy for everyone at a Do to be served at different times - for some people to be receiving their deserts when others are only just finishing their appetisers, but the restaurant will assume that a group all wants to eat at the same time and just because a restaurant has x covers does not mean it has the capacity to serve x starters of y different varieties all the same time.

Bingo. Thanks for putting it much better than I did.

And let me say that I think this is a very valuable thread. Thanks to Jenbel for starting it. We are airing our feelings about this very important part of Flyertalk. Do's and the real community they develop, are what separate Flyertalk from other travel websites.

Agreed. 100%. I would never think of not paying my full share. However, one advantage of arranging for each person to pay his own bill is that there is nothing left over for the organizers to pay.

Yes...and no. As Jenbel said later, someone who is permanently suspended has no right to attend a Meet but the organizer certainly has a right to allow him to come. Indeed, even people who have never been members can be allowed -- most Meets have friends or relatives of FTers.

Wingnut, I can only answer from my two previous experiences. At both the Tel Aviv and the Third Annual PBI-FLL Meet, it worked out well. We did all eat at the same time.

Keep in mind that even at a medium-sized Meet (say 50 people) we are only a small percentage of the restaurant. In Tel Aviv we were given a separate room, in Florida we had the patio. In both instances the main dining areas could handle at least 200 people -- so the kitchens had no problem taking care of us.

Awesome game .. been playing since it first came out. :)

People - topic? ;)

Jenbel
Co-moderator, Communitybuzz!

Ok Mod. ;)

Look guys, if you're not satisfied with enjoying 30 euro dinners someplace in Europe, come along on the
08 BRT. We always find something to eat (on the cheap) somewhere along the line. Pizza, hot dogs, Italian food. You name it.

I do realize that the BRT even attracts the 30-75 euro crowd who's looking for the excitement, that only a place like Brooklyn can offer. Maybe those folks come along to enjoy the company of other Flyertalkers! @:-)

FYI, at dinner, we always make you pay for what you eat. The person eating a $12 pasta pays their own share; and, the guy who ordered the wine, pays his share. No one gets 'cheated'. :p

Great topic - a few thoughts -
 

I have never organized a mega-do with tons of people and events, but i have organized many medium to large group dinners, some smaller weekend do's (in conjunction with others) and of course events around artistic pursuits:)

I have only attended one Mega-mega do and that was the first ORD do some years ago, so my comments don't have much to do with those types of events.

I have probably made every mistake possible with organizing do's - my first one, back in April 2001, at a local pizza parlor, I didn't realize how many people drank large amounts of alcohol; I didn't realize some people had ordered separate things from the menu besides pizza; and I let myself be bullied into changing the "drop dead' date for signing up. We would up cramming into a space meant for fewer people and having some people duck out without paying at all.

I leaned my lessons quickly and so established a few ground rules for other do's I plan :

1) If I'm orgainzing the event, I pick the date and the restaurant. Sometimes I can adjust the time, but almost literally, "too many cooks spoil the broth. If someone doesn't like the restaurant or the date there's usually another choice in the future. (that goes both ways - I sometimes want to attend an event because folks I like/know are going but the cuisine or price range isn't to my liking - I have learned there's always another dinner...)


2) I tend to focus on resonably priced events for more casual dinners - under $20 /person - so we eat a lot of Chinese, Thai, and Indian.

3) Everyone pays for their own alcohol but we often split the food tab equally. See #2 above.

4) If you have been a deadbeat in the past you are not welcome to events I plan. This has actually has happened with a "serial offender."

5) For more expensive dinners or larger events,(25+ people) it is near nigh impossible to find a restaurant in San Francisco that will deal with anything other than a fixed price, fixed menu dinner. We have had a mix of weekday and weekend events, and more casual restaurants can't handle larger groups, and more "plush" places have set rules they follow. While I recognize Dovster's experiences both good and bad, the reality is when I have planned FT dinners that were on the expensive side, WITHOUT a fixed price, I have often had to either chip in more or ask for help. Tax is expensive here (8.75%); I count tips at 15%; people often underestimate how much they drink; and with that, people often underpay. Not maliciously, but often enough that I realized that my role as "bill police" affected my ability to enjoy the events I had planned.

7) The "price creep" for FT events has always been of great concern to me. I am happy to meet for snacks, lunch coffeee etc in lieu of dinenrs and I'm working on places that serve something for "happy hour" meetups to keep the costs down.

8) I personally don't like larger events (the "mega -do's") as I am uncomfortalbe in huge crowds and lots of drinking, but I salute and admire anyone who can pull off the mega PLANNING that goes into an event of that type.

6) After all that, I love planning local FT events! I like to meet new FT'ers; welcome newcomers or visitors and I of course like to eat in many of our wonderful SF restaurants.

Thanks again Jenbel for starting this very important topic.

I guess I'm glad you're not located in Queens, as the QRT sounds like a new reality show on Bravo.

Three Degrees of Do's
 

It's been interesting to read thru this and see three distinct "classifications" of Do's emerge. I think it's a great thread to be sure, begun by a "master" Do organiser that's kept it going with plenty of wisdom (and appropriate moderator "back at the ranch" comments as well). Jenbel's success as a Do organizer can easily be seen in the fun that she has at the events that she plans (now, maybe in the privacy of her hotel room during the Do or her own quarters afterwards, she's yelling who knows what at the walls, but when she's with the crowd she's gathered, she always seems to be having a great time....seems...) The back & forth comments I've seen so far may just be different perspectives on expectations....which may be clarified by understanding of just what type of Do it is that's being sought. I'm no authority on it, but here's what I see forming so far.....

The "Mega-Do"---A full-on mega FT-weekend "experience". It's more effectively launched & landed by an ambitious & FT-passionate team of organizers. It is more effectively embraced & enjoyed by planning-appreciative FTers who will gladly set aside a few personal/individual "must have's" and "customization" requirements for potentially "better" venue/food/amenity/activity offerings afforded by a large-group. Official events are taken in "as is" or not, without much demand for "exceptions", and thus not much resentment over unmet (unfeasible) tailoring requests. An event-planning/pre-event payment website is retained for ease of information traffic and event payment. "Official" activities include an organised Fri. night arrivals gathering, a Saturday night "dinner", a Sunday mid-day lunch, all of which are "part" of the "Official" Do, posted on and paid for thru the website, each as pre-selectable options. For ease of organization and execution by the organizing team, the events are "set", accomplishing potentially bigger, better, or just a greater variety of offerings. Deadlines for payment and reservations are set, ensuring Do-related obligations are met with minimal financial impact to the planners. The convenience of an entire weekend booked with a few clicks replaces a lot of the research an individual would have to do on his/her own for a similarly scaled weekend. Sure, you may have to "put up" with the collective will of a large number of people, but as with the London Mega, good luck finding your own boat on the Thames with a catered meal and a front-row seat for the fireworks.

The "Do"-- Smaller than the mega-do, yet no less fun in its experience, is this weekend of simpler scale, planned by one or a few FTers. The "Do" usually includes: an "obligatory by tradition" main-event Saturday night "organized" dinner, officially sandwiched only between a possible/optional Fri. night arrivals beverage gathering and a suggested/optional "departure" brunch/lunch on Sunday. Beyond this, Do organizers or attendees suggest a variety of activities in the area for out-of-towners needing "insider" ideas on spending the day, usually the daylight hours of Saturday. While some have websites for ease of information sharing, none is thought of as "required" (yet) since the first few posts of the Do-thread are kept fluid, updated as needed by its planners. While helpful, no pre-payment technology is envoked, since foresight and courtesy are rightfully expected of each attendee in doing his/her part to ensure no Do organizer is left with 'da bill. It's sad that sometimes this happens, as it potentially could with any social gathering--FT or not. Clearly posted expectation of this social guideline would hopefully give deterrence to and recourse from such inconsiderations. (read: Attendees that can get themselves across the ocean to attend, but not across the street to the ATM to have enough cash for dinner, need not apply).

A Gathering -- The simplest of all Do events, we're talking about a simple get-together that is as casually attended as it is casually organized. While so chilled out that a "title" like "Do" seems overkill, it certainly has no less fun on tap than the other "Do" categories. This informal meeting of FTers requires no website, no unwieldy uber-thread, and likely no hotel reservations. Perfect for a road-warrior's weeknight or a mid-day power-lunch, the Gathering begins with a thread title that includes City, Date, Event--"Dinner, place x, date y" and a fluid first post including further details. The ongoing fellowship of local FT networks is enriched by "Do-ing" these regularly. Posting of these offers the occasional companionship of a shared meal or a few raised glasses to the FTer far from home. This easiest of all Do's to execute is ideal for the FTer's first "venture" into Do organization. Attendees themselves become the "organizing team" thru simple gestures from offering rides as needed to volunteering to "get there early" to stake out a table if a reservation is not possible.

The Layover--Barely a "Do" and some would rightfully contest its inclusion here, this is THE simplest, most low-maintenance meetup of them all. Just a simple thread in Community that offers "I'm at XXX airport or at XXX area near said airport on XXX day @ XXX time, who's around?" The airport code is posted in the title, along with the date & time, whilst the full name of the airport or town is put in the initial post (as a courtesy to FT newbies who don't know their airport codes---or FT veterans who forget--or FT anyone in between who's wondering "Where the heck is THAT?". The "OP" may post their preference as far as venue or activity, or leave that open for response. Attendees either PM the OP (send a private message to the author of the original post) or add their yes/no to the thread. Usually involving a simple intersection at an airport bar, restaurant, airline club or airport area (or easily gotten to from said airport) establishment. This "smallest" of all FT "offical" posted gatherings is the Flyertalker's fun answer to hanging out in the airport alone for a few hours.


How do I find one?
Mega-Do's & Do's usually find their way to The Consolidated Do List Thread, wonderfully organized by date & location. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=660468

Gatherings may sometimes appear there as well, but, along with Layovers, are often found in the threads of this forum. Scroll the thread titles &/or yype in your town with the search function for a "Do" near "You."


So, as FT has grown, so has the "Do", with its different types for its different travelers. So, before the reader bashes the "Do" hook/line/sinker, or before the reader decides never to organize one, I suggest to the potential Do organizer a simple reflection on how you roll best and which best fits your stride. All 3 types have been incredible contributions to the FT community, and I hope all 3, the Do at all levels, continues to that end.

Just my $00.02.

That's a great summation ^

skye1, "A Gathering" can be just as enjoyable as the most mega of mega meets -- and I hope to see you at this gathering in your home town next month.

thanks for the commercial break, dovster ;)
and now back to the thread :)

Wow. It's hard to imagine that someone would really do such a thing.

That would sour me on Do organizing indeed. :(

What can I say? I can't afford to attend Champagne Dos. :mad: :p

I have never heard of someone going so far as to refuse to pay anything (although it may well have happened) but I am familiar with two different things which have happened at past meets:

1. Members either not agreeing to leave a tip, or only leaving a tiny one, and the organizers making up the difference.

2. Members who refused to pay their full share of the bill, based on their not having ordered as much as others. Again, the organizers made up the difference.

I am not saying that I agree with either of these -- I very much don't -- but they are part of the reason why I have decided to organize only "Order what you want -- pay your own bill" events.

Why have I hesitated to plan anything large recently other than a lunch?

1. I've realized that I am not particularly comfortable at the really large events - more than about 35 people, and it feels like a convention where I end up having to cold-talk people at a table.
2. I count many members of FT as friends. While I agree with Willie's comment on page 1 about meeting more people, it's not as much an urgency for me as it was 7 years ago, when I joined FT in a rather turbulent part of my life.
3. Let's call it like it is: there are people who regularly attend the larger general events whom I cannot stand. And if I'm going to spend my time organizing something, I don't want to have them darken my door.

I will probably continue to help organize occasional niche events, such as the roughly annual travelling Cubs Do (this year was an abberation as the road schedule this year was abyssmal), where a lot of the rules and issues discussed above are moot. And there are more people to organize lunches and dinners in Chicago, so I do not have to take the lead as much - which given my work travel schedule is probably a good thing.

First off PAWS UP to Skye1 for his thorough analysis of the varing degrees of F-T events. Maybe add that to the "DO" definition in the glossery. :)

Since this is a retirement thread, I have to disagree with some posters who say you can attend an event with someone who you don't like simply by disappearing into the crowd and hang with those who you do. This is another reason (and perhaps the number ONE reason) why I "retired" from the Mega DO organizing and decided NO MORE Catman DO's.

If I do another big event and it is posted according to the F-T rules ALL Flyertalkers have to be allowed to attend. But what if someone decides to come who I don't get along with, whose attacked me or made fun of me at other FT events in the past? Trust me, I have evidence of this from several well respected Flyertalkers - London DO anyone? (another reason why I am selective on what I organize and what I attend.)

How can I enjoy the event *I* organized when:

1. I'm uncomfortable and fear a scene.
2. People who are friends who I hope can attend can't and won't because someone else is there.
3. The host can't just disappear to avoid drama because there will be someone who seek that person out to make a statement "oh, Catman shook my hand... all is well."

It happened with CMD3. There was too much drama and several fights and several friendships that almost got destroyed because of who came and who didn't come and who was talking to who and who I even shook hands with.

I rather just skip events and avoid any stress or strain. Call me a child, call me inmature a chicken but I have had enough stress in my 41 years of existance.

As I said, the smaller events... the gatherings and if they past 12 FT-ers the "standard DOS" I have no problem putting together. Keep it simple.

I'll see some of you at the San Diego 1K's Soup DOs or some sooner. :)

Catman, I'd never call you any of those things for refusing to carry out an activity which you don't get enjoyment out of :)

If you stop enjoying it, if the situations bring stresses which you don't want to deal with, then stop doing it - I personally don't believe that anyone could ever criticise you for that! While I regret that I'll never be able to attend a Cat Man Doo, I also wouldn't want you to feel forced to organise one which you wouldn't enjoy.

I'm with Nick. This thread is a perfect example of why I'd never attempt to organize a "do".

Dealing with FTers that don't like the menu, don't like the venue, don't like the prices, don't want to pay for alcohol because they don't drink, don't have cash (or a CC), don't tip appropriately. Not to mention don't like the other FTers, or trying to keep away former FTers.

Geez. :(

Happened to me at the recent Cow DO in Buenos Aires.

And I wasn't even an organizer....just the poor schmo at the head of the table who was handed the check.

We had asked for separate checks but the best the restaurant would do was one check for each table of 18...and a calculator. :eek:

But to be fair, the guidelines for how the dinner cost would be split was not finalized beforehand.

So we passed the hat a couple times and I and another helpful FT'er made up the difference.

This can be a major issue so I strongly suggest that anybody planning a DO, Meet, Gathering or event of any size agree before the dinner as to how the meal is to be paid. And make sure the restaurant understands your arrangement beforehand as well.

This I don't have a problem with at all.

Dovster---I certainly didn't mean to imply that it was any less enjoyable, but could understand how what I wrote could be perceived that way. I've attempted a simple edit of my post, and would gladly revise further as needed...just let me know! Thanks!

I am always quite stunned at how often travel-savvy people (as one would think many FTers would be) throw up their hands and whine like babies when certain elements of Do's just aren't done to their pleasure. But, I think that's just the nuts & bolts of event-organizing and social collection in general, regardless of internet board or community title, FT or not.

I think it just reminds us all that some people can be, well, difficult, regardless of their affiliation with FT or not. These people need to realize the "organzing" side of events, and understand that many things have to be done a certain way for valid reasons. Rather than whine about it (as some do), perseverate on the smallest of issues (as some do), or insist on their own exceptions to it (as some do), they should be reminded that no one is holding a gun to their head to make them go. Their choice is simply accepting the Do as is, as offered, or not.

A Do organzier runs a real risk of getting a lot of that flack when they open up the "organzing" process to the masses. Seeking input for the planning process is one thing, and IMHO, best left to a smaller team...since in the "too many cooks in the kitchen" paradigm, the more people you throw into the planning mix, the more you'll have to deal with of that "stuff." IMHO, better to plan it, post your offerings, and people can be grown-ups and simply decide to take it or pass. Do organziers that can clearly post this and adhere to it stand to save themselves from immersion in a lot of that "stuff."

Skye1, there was nothing wrong with your post and you didn't imply that a gathering is less enjoyable.

As chrissxb was quick to see, I was simply using that as a lead in to inviting you to join us at the STL gathering. :)

That is a very good point, as was a point made earlier about not needing to overschedule FTers. To me, a perfect weekend event has a lot of free time. One prepaid planned event on Saturday night, one planned event on Sunday for those not having to catch an early flight, one designated pay-as-you-go meeting point for early arrivals on Friday. Everything else can fall into small self-organizing ad hoc groups, so people can talk in smaller groups and/or go off with the friends they've met from past events, and/or just go explore on their own for a while.

Very well said.

I have long been a believer in the dictator style of do organization.

Great summary Skye1!!

Cheers.

I've added the "layover" option to my previous diatribe, noting how I seem to have just posted one myself :D.

I have been following this thread with much interest over the past few days. I have actually found myself reading this thread more than once a day, and reading the whole thread each time. I then hit the "Reply" button several times, started with a few words, and basically didn't know what to say. Not sure why, but it's been quite a while since that has been the case for me.
I have actually been thinking about it for quite a bit, and just can't put my finger on why.

Unfortunately I still don't know what to say, other than that skye1 did an excellent job summarizing the different types of Do's!^ There are advantages and disadvantages to each type, as I have learned from organizing/attending every type of meetup he has mentioned. I'll leave it at that.:o

Perhaps cuz you've both organized & been an attendee so you know 'the good, the bad & the ugly', so where to start, where to start? ;) :)

Cheers.