I stand by my post.

It's a shame that this too is taken out of context, compared to the big picture.

But since you are not aware of what transpired, I'll take the heat for how you have interpreted what I wrote.

Now if Punki will take the heat for what she did, I'd be able to get back to sleep at 5:00 am NY time.

Dan

I was (kind of) part of the old clique and was ousted out on my rear end.

I still love the old but I love the new as well.

In the past month I have met some FTers whom I had a great time with as though I had known them for a very long time. I look forward to seeing them again real soon.

As far as cliques are concerned...anyone who has been to any FT meeting knows that by the end of the evening small groups are unintentionally formed. The groups are formed by people with common interests OTHER than FT and miles. Because of the similar interest these smaller groups often keep in touch on FT as well as personal emails, phone calls ect...


Can't we all just get along?




[This message has been edited by wingless (edited 03-17-2002).]

Sorry dhammer53, but: ...reads to me in any context:

Old "Clique" = Evil

2X + 3Y = wingless

X=good
Y=evil

I fail to understand the whole issue of cliques. Its not cliques that are the problem, its not even the old or new thing. It seems to me that there are some members of those cliques (both the old and the new) that are the problem...

The solution to whats happening on FT is very very simple.

- No more Prima-Donna attitudes (and I dont care how long any member has been here, this community is more valuable than any single one of its participants)

- No more holding this community and its Owner hostage by threatening to leave

- No more demanding for a title or a badge

- Either no rules, or, clear & concise published rules that are enforced for all members


------------------
Gaucho100K

I just wanted to make public my apoligies to those whom I have offended.


I was not nor never will take sides with anyone except for in basketball.


GO CLIPPERS!!!

I have been benched

I agree with PremEx on this one. I am having serious difficulty imagining any "big picture" or "context" where it would be appropriate for TalkBoard members to refer to themselves as good and the long-term members of Flyer Talk as evil.

As far as cliques go, Gaucho, when I first came here many years ago, the members of the old clique welcomed me with open arms and taught me far more than I could have imagined about travel and the wonderful friendships that can develop in a Bulletin Board community. I am deeply grateful. Just as I am grateful for the friendship of many delightful newcomers to the board.

While it saddens me that some of my favorite OldTimers no longer post, it also delights me to see that many of them are still here, still welcoming, and still generous with their friendship and their wisdom. We are all fortunate indeed for their presence among us.

Tequila shots next time, right?

Did we form a clique when we all met a few weeks ago? "The Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach Clique"?



------------------
The perfect ladies' man is a perfect gentleman.

I been out of town the last few days and I have missed part of this story. I didn't get Rudi's question or was it a statement?
I always feel that the old timers have a well of knowledge and it's a gift when they share. In my short time here I have found that to be true and I most appreciate what I have learned here. The new friends that I have meet here have made my travels just a little more enjoyable.
I realize that most all of this work is done as volunteer's and many of us gain for free.
I would like to say "THANK YOU" to the old group and the new group.
Lets move on.

I too have learned much from Rudi, Premex and Punki. If these FT'ers were branded 'Evil' I strongly disagree.

FT will continue to evolve. I've been here from the beginning but don't identitfy myself with any so called "cliques". That said I have the utmost regard for Rudi - so any clique that he leads cannot be evil

Interestingly enough I had once mentioned about the secrecy in the TalkBoard, which was rebutted by Dan, so I was doubly surprised to get the leaked info. If there was no secrecy, how come we don't know about the "big picture"?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000623.html

I'm having a hard time imagining any big picture as well, nor am I pleased with the leaked info I saw.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 03-19-2002).]

Arrrgh! I JUST NOW noticed this. I was in Petaluma on Sunday enjoying oysters and beer!

My sincerest apologies for being a dumb a$$.

A final thought on that old Washington "saw."

There ARE certain advantages to conducting BUSINESS (as opposed to government) in private. And lets stop kidding ourselves that FT or the TB is some sort of democracy. It ain't. It's Randy's business. We have no "rights" here. We play here at the pleasure and whim of the host. If he wants to set aside a group of people, suspend whatever rules may or may not apply generally, or whatever, that is his prerogative. This is NOT the US Government.

Was I upset that I was slandered behind 'closed FT doors?' Not really. I mean,
1) Consider the source, and
2) I've been called much worse.

Randy told me that he hadn't been following the discussions where I (and others) were slandered, and I believe him. I like to think if he had, he wouldn't have let it stand. And now almost all those private threads have been 'cleaned up'.

But even if Randy decided to let those threads and comments stand, heck, even if he WROTE them, the bottom line is that this is his sandlot. He makes the rules and therefore is never wrong.

If I were really offended I would realize that the 'FORMAL power structure' of this place did not respect me and I would leave. But, in the end, IJAFIBB.

So click away, clique away, whatever. Some will always take life, FT, whatever, too seriously.

IJAFIBB.

[This message has been edited by kokonutz (edited 03-19-2002).]

I have many mixed feelings on this issue.

Dhammer brought me into FlyerTalk and for that I am very grateful. He is often the first one to welcome newbies on chat and on boards; his generosity with UAL goodies and other stuff is known to many on this board; and he isa an active participant in several other boards where he is just as kind and generous.That's all I want to say about that because there are clearly other issues between he and other FT members that I am not and don't want to be privy to.

About cliques - (or as we called them in High school, which this is all starting to remind me of, "cleeks") I have been welcomed by newbies and "oldies" alike, and I am proud to consider some of the "old guard" among my closest FT frends. As in "real life" I like some people more than I like others. It doesn't seem to be a problem. Where cliques come in for me, is where people use FT for what I feel are inappropriate purposes and gatherings. In my mind, if I post an FT event or respond to a posting about one, I assume al FT'ers are invited, and I take my chances like anyone else that some people there may not be my cup of tea. To me, one of the great glories of FT is that anyone is welcome to participate and I have learned or shared something form just about every FT'er I have met. But I have been privy to several instances where a get together is posted on the board and then all the other arrangements are made privately, shutting out people who might have wanted to attend. That's where cliques seem dangerous and exclusive - NOT the fact that some people have been on FT longer than others and may have opinions on things.


Same thing sometimes happens in chat - I am a relative chat newbie and I notice sometimes people come with questions and we're too busy gabbing to answer. Not a lot and not everyone - but I admire people like dhammer who always go out of their way to make newbies feel like they can get questions answered. I sometimes feel like an outsider in chat cause I just started and don't know everyone's name (and that most chatters who don;t know me think I'm a guy but that's another story) and I appreciate it when chatters help me and others feel more included. And chat is the great equalizer - I now feel like an old timer and it doesn't take long...

I'm not sure what my point is (surprise) except to say I haven't experienced the old vs new split some have and have taken to heart. But I have experienced some of the unpleasantness of cliques, and people talking out of turn about each other and that saddens me...


edited for usual lousy typing - is there a macro I can add to say that on all my posts??


[This message has been edited by squeakr (edited 03-19-2002).]