A lot of work and brain has been put in all that stuff.

What I can't understand is, why you all wanna change those unwritten FT rules. More than 99 % of all FT'ers are behaving the "right way". What I learned in my life is:
Don't try to implement rules just to get the exceptions (or execeptional behavior) solved. Rules are to be set to regulate the "usual" things.
If moderators will monitor the boards we will start fighting with the interpretion of those guys in the future.
What happened over the last weeks and months is not only to blame on OZ but on a very few others as well, who with obvious lust answered the flaming.

We don't need rules or moderators for just 5-7 people.
The only rule would be ... ignoring - as was advised here on these boards over and over again from the most reasonable members.

Imagine these boards being your favorite bar: Hundreds of people each and every night. People you like to meet and talk to - many of 'em you had become friends. Some of 'em you just don't like very much. In the back there is one who is rude, offensive and aggressive (and some others like to fight with him and argue). Some nights he's yelling so that everybody can and must listen. Some times this guy even offends you or one of your friends on his way to the bathroom. Well he's just one out of a hundred or so nice people.

What would you do: Call the police ? What for ? Call the bartender or the owner to "monitor" this guy (these guys) ? Leave and never come back to a place, where you have many friends.

C'mon ... the internet is a mirror of the real life

Ooooops

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 03-06-2001).]

Oooooops

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 03-06-2001).]

Ooooooops

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 03-06-2001).]

Oooooooooops

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 03-06-2001).]

Oooooooooooops

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 03-06-2001).]

Everything works fine again, see ....

Edited all the posts, which I thought wouldn't go thru for better following the thread.

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 03-06-2001).]

Imminent death of FlyerTalk predicted.

Bernie-- Well said. But, dont you agree that you have to draw the line somewhere?

I like the proposal -- IN ITS ORIGINAL FORMAT.

Discussing the details of it before there's a consensus on the general principals seems pointless.

But I support the original proposal.

Yup, what is to prevent another flame war from starting? Say if Ozstamps leaves Flyertalk for good and there are no further conflicts, great. But based on history, I predict doc will the next controversial poster on FT. When there is a disagreement, doc will cart a list of difficult-to-answer ettiquette/behavior questions that he wants answered . I guess this is so that he can know the boundaries within which he is allowed to operate? In any case, without an answer from our host and without moderators, doc will continue doing what he wants to do, that will tick some people off, they will do what they want to do, etc. Here comes another flame war and we are back to square one.

Well posting a reply was awful yesterday night.

Doc how come you knew ?

No, Gaucho, I don't think so. As I mentioned, I don't believe it to be helpful to have a bunch of rules to deal with just five - seven guys. I had my fight with OZ (over the Suadi Jet in LAS), learned from it and from that day on went out of his way. Worked very well.
I hardly understood those members who argued with him over and over again (Premex included). This wouldn't have gone that far, if everyone would have ignored him - as they probably would have done in real life.

Kyklin, this is supposed to be an open forum, so everybody is invited to "do what he wants" you and me included. This forum is not meant to please everyone everyday and to "discipline" certain members to the like of everybody else.

What do you think how explicit (and looooong) the rules should be to make doc behave and post the way you want.

Rudi's question on languages is quite as complicated. We post in many languages like German, French, Spanish sometimes even Latin and "Arturish" and English, of course.
Who should monitor ? Who would be capable of doing so ? Would you get it, if I call you names in German ? Would any moderator ?

See ... we would be discussing rules and censorship and the interpretion for months just over the most simple things.

Do you all think that rules would work out, when pure common sense did not ? Even with rules there would be people leaving b/ c one day they may think, that just one single rule or interpretion of it will not fit them.

So, please, let it go !

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 03-06-2001).]

Discounting the multiple posts of yesterday ( ), I have tabulated results from 23 respondants thus far. I have categorized as follows:

Approval by categories:
General Approval
Moderators
User Advisory Council
Hot Debate Room
Multiple Aliases

There is a similar table for Disapprovals, as well as a section for comments and suggestions either pertinent to these categories or outside them.

If a respondant indicated general approval but disapproved of one category, that respondant�s responses were categorized as a positive response to �general approval� and a negative response to �(specific category)�. If a respondant indicated approval of several specific categories, but did not indicate general approval, only those categories indicated were marked.

Note: There were several comments with valid suggestions as to variations or modifications of the broad category concepts as initially written. These will be incorporated into the final summary, but will be a schedule indicating comments and suggestions. The results as tabulated only address a general position on the broad concept category.

The results to date:
General Approval 10
Moderators 2
UAC 1
Hot Debate Room 2
Multiple Aliases 0

General Disapproval 4
Moderators 1
UAC 1
Hot Debate Room 4
Multiple Aliases 1


Please note that I have received many emails offering both approval and disapproval. My instincts are that these should not be tabulated due to issues surrounding identity, etc. Several people emailing me gave neither FT alias or name, so I have no idea whether they are duplications of actual posted comments, from one person or the same people, etc.

I would be glad to email any of you a spreadsheet that indicates how I counted responses by FT alias if you will email me your request for such. Or, I could email it to someone who is able to post it to a URL for common review.

My suggestion is that I continue to monitor for additional input through today and tomorrow, and finalize the tabulated results Wednesday night. At that point, we can decide what further steps are indicated.

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by svpii (edited 03-06-2001).]

Hi,

Not sure if you have my votes in your talley.

My preferences:

The results to date:
General Approval YES
Moderators YES
UAC YES
Hot Debate Room NO NO NO
Multiple Aliases NO NO NO



[This message has been edited by wharvey (edited 03-06-2001).]

Some, of course, do not ever come to FT.

Some come to FT with only their eyes - and never post.


Yet, of the registered posters:

Some come only to share information & obtain feedback.

Some come with matches to start a fire.

Some come with gasoline to pour on the dying embers.

Some come with flameproof bunker gear!


While I personally come only to share information & obtain useful feedback, sadly, I also come with flameproof bunker gear!

Perhaps it's time to ask what you come to FT with?

Bring a solution rather than a problem!