At one low point in FT's history when things got bad and were headed to worse, when the level heads on FT were calling for strict moderation of these boards, Randy short-circuted a crisis by simply turning on the UBB IP logging feature, thereby giving Webflyer the ability to unmask with some degree of certainty anonymous posters.

It is time for Randy to take this action again. Not only are we not sure who many posters really are, there has been created an environment where there exists little or not trust and faith in fellow flytertaklers. That's just sad. I am sorely tempted to point fingers of blame south of the equator, but that would be redundant at this point.

We have a problem. Randy holds the keys to the solution. Randy, please turn the IP logging feature on and USE it. Out multiple personalities. Issue warnings to abusers. Go after multiple offenders at their ISP.

Drastic times call for drastic measures. Please restore our faith in each other, even if you must do so by force.

BTW, yes, I realize the IP log can be circumvented, but such circumvention leaves evidence as well and to me, such circumvention is proof of guilt...

Either that or implement moderated forums...

PLEASE!

Kokonutz,

I could not agree more.

Unless something is done to unmask multiple personalities, most of us will be wondering if every new member is really just another disguise.

That will be very unfair to "Real" new members who have no idea what has happened and why they are being treated with distrust.

Agree!

Plenty of agreement from this end as well...

Wonderful idea!

And here's another one, as posted by FewMiles here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../003806-4.html

I'm not a lawyer (nor have I pretended to be one on these boards) but my interpretation of the TOS is pretty simple. They've been violated. The offending parties should be removed...

ONCE AGAIN, I could not agree more.

IP addresses are a little scary though...you can find out WAY too much about someone...this is why I call for moderators:

MODERATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dorian



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I'll jump into this one too, I've been waiting a long time for someone (who I won't name) to tell me who I am.

Moderators, sure.

But posting IP addresses is going too far. Do you realize how much you can find out about a person with that little bit of information? The goal should be to weed out flamers, not threaten the personal privacy of everyone else.

The IP thing sounds like a lot of work for the WebFlyer staff, basically them having to police these boards. That is an unreasonable burden to ask on them.

Moderators would't necessarily be a bad idea, but I don't see how they could help with the question of who people really are. That's not a moderator's job.

The best solution, which I will later sum up in one word, is for people here to just take a deep breath and relax. This is not a constitutional crisis.

I usually find views by everyone in this thread to be quite enlightened. However, this is definitely not the case here.

What is being proposed is, in essence, the first step into dangerous territory. How do you think the Salem witch hunts began?

Authoritarian rule starts with one little "plan" that takes away freedom in the name of making things better, or at least better for some. Would FlyerTalk be better if people didn't use fake IDs? I say yes, but not at the cost that is being suggested.

FlyerTalk already requires people to register. Fine, that's nice. "But people don't have to give an e-mail address!!" come the calls from the worriers. Well, we all know that e-mail addresses can be gotten in seconds.

But the fact is many new people may not want to make their e-mail address available. The Internet is a new thing to many people, and they may not be comfortable giving out personal information to strangers. And given that so many other discussion boards, etc., on the Net are far less civil than FT, even those with much Internet experience may choose not to reveal their e-mail address.

But none of that goes to the issue of fake FT IDs. Do I want to be carded every time I post? No, and I bet you don't either.

IP logging is really not a cure-all, anyway. As was mentioned, people can get around it. Or, given that this is a community of travelers, what if someone is posting from somewhere other than their normal place, say on a business trip?

And Randy's staff is going to be forced to sort through all this? IP logging is just not practical, and I'm glad it is not, because it's such a terrible idea.

What about newbies? If I'm signing up for FlyerTalk and I read over the terms and conditions and I see that FT will be logging my Internet address, I may be more than a little hesitant to go through with that.

This community is not only about the regulars, something that is all too often forgotten by many old-timers. FT does not exist solely for us regulars, and what we think is best for FT may not always be so.

Newbies already many times are treated like dirt around here, told to "do a search" or even just treated rudely. The way to make that better is also the solution to this current problem, of dealing with suspected fake IDs:

Grace.

kokonutz said:
I don't think the intent here is to post the offending ISP's. FlyerTalk has the ability to identify and warn those 'multiple personas' that their actions are a breach of the TOS agreement, plain & simple. If the offender(s) choose not to comply, then FT can pull the plug or block them.

I'm in favor of that....

For our last discussion on the possible use of moderators that Dorian initiated:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000232.html

The way the thread "developed" kind of illustrates to me that a real need for them may well already be here- sadly!

There have been some recent responses to some newbies' posts across FT that have sharply directed them to do a search or to see similar discussions in other forums without giving them the benefit of a link. That troubles me; it's no way to make someone new, who is probably unfamiliar with the way FT works, feel welcome.

As for the fake ID issue, I agree that policing every post via IP logging does not make sense and, in fact, strikes me as scary. I don't favor the use of moderators either. Maybe it's because I have not been around FT all that long, or perhaps I am just naive, but I tend to take members' comments and their identities at face value. I ignore the flames, the wars and silly posts or those that simply indulge the authors' egos.

It has never occurred to me to second guess someone's identity or the validity of their remarks on FT and I am not about to begin now. The wonderful FTers I met in Tokyo last weekend proved me right to be so trusting and I will continue in this vein while trying to keep in mind that grace, tolerance and patience are key to the survival of FlyerTalk or any other community, be it virtual or "real."

Just yesterday I read a post by one of FT's more prominent and respected members and was appalled at one of the remarks therein. Believe me, it was tempting to fire off a reply and question the right of this person to do what had been described. Instead, I did what "motnot" suggested: I took a deep breath, shrugged it off and when on to another thread. Do I still take issue with the behavior described? Absolutely. Is it that important for me to have my say at the risk of getting tempers flared and feelings hurt? Not at all.

And so it goes with fake IDs and the like. If, someday, I have it proven to me that the correspondence I have had (whether on FT or in private email) with "FlyerTalker X", "FlyerTalker Y" and "FlyerTalker Z" have all been directed to the same individual, so what. I will likely be perplexed and wonder why the individual felt a need to spread him- or herself around so but it will not rock my world.

I will continue to be involved with FlyerTalk, sharing ideas and exchanging information, in the hopes that my travel and that of the other members will be a bit more enjoyable and productive because of those efforts. Perhaps others can find peace in adopting a similar strategy.

bbinchi,

Multiple personalities have become a problem for one simple reason.

ONE member here used a multiple personality to enhance an opinion. The "Fake Personality" claimed to be a lawyer and offered "Legal Advise". This type of behavior cannot and should not be tolerated.

To all of you calling for moderators,

What exactly are moderators going to do?

Will they have IP logging and searching capabilities?

Are some of you calling for moderators prepared to be told that your posts are in the wrong forum? Not on topic?

Be careful what you wish for, you may get it

IP logging requires very little "work" from the WebFlyer staff. The software does the work, creating a log file. It does require someone to read it. Can Randy find one person with 10 minutes to do it?

And the IP addresses are not made visible to the public, only in the log file.

Really a terrible idea? And allowing the ozzie-phalanx unlimited free range is a much better one I suppose?

Anyone ever receive grace from a graceless man?

Is that the real problem??? Would I ask for legal advice on FlyerTalk???

In my opinion, the justification of such an action would be to rip of the masks of Pfps, notsonewhere etc. and get rid of the persistent personal attacks.

But it is pretty easy to get around IP logging if one is determined. I agree, be careful of what you are asking for - you might get it.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 12-10-2000).]