bbinchi, Response to newbies is tertiary to the two main points of this thread; that is, use of multiple handles and IP logging.


IP logging is simply a toggle in the UBB admin program. In other words, a bot process. To put it more plainly, it's a passive, behind-the-scenes action in the software rather than an active "policing" as you suggest. There should be no fear of it as long as participation is on the level. Logging is not actively monitored but can be referred to when necessary, such as when TOS has been violated or to identify violators.

I disagree with your assessment for the need for moderators and, yes, it is based on my long-term participation in the FT community. You are entitled to your evaluation of the trustworthiness of the other members here but IME several newcomers have proven unworthy of our trust, not to mention downright nasty in their behavior here. I'm not willing to acquiesce the integrity of the forum to them. FT means too much to me to not fight for it.

[This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 12-10-2000).]

PG, You missed my point. The use of multiple personalities to enhance an opinion cannot and should not be tolerated. The above example is just one of the many abuses by the ONE member.

You also took my "Be careful what you ask for" line out of context. Are you insinuating that I am Pfp or NSNH?.

If so, you are wrong. I do not hide behind an alias. If I think a member here is wrong, I state that under my one and only identity.

If not, I am sorry that I read that into your comments.

While the goal is admirable turning on IP address monitoring will do little. Most people get a new IP address every time they login, and if you use a large ISP like AT&T or IBM, getting them to track down who was on a particular IP at a particular time normally requires a court order -- abusing a bulletin board is not going to get their attention.

Not to mention the dozens of free internet services that require nearly no real information to get access to the Internet, and to track them back would require looking up the inbound phone number, no easy task, and then getting the phone company to tell you who has that number if its unlisted (court order required).

If people are fed up then I too support partial moderation -- create new copies of the current boards for people who want moderation to participate in, and let us 'commoners' jibber jabber among the regular bulletin boards.

Cameraguy - you are reading into my words. Its ironic, I agreed with one thing in your post.

For me the persistent personal attacks by false handles like Pfps and NSNH are far worse, and moreover they set a bad precedent where anything goes and the end justify the means.

Someone please explain the wealth of information one can learn about a person through their IP address. Pardon my ignorance, I just don't know anything about this stuff. Thanks.

Through a 'normal' IP address you can usually determine a person's physical location and/or where they work.

In some cases I know of instances of people being tracked to a single computer at a library in 'real-time' (yes, they were physically tracked down while sitting there).

I do not support IP tracking. I support moderated forums.

Dorian

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PG,

I was pretty sure that I was misreading your post, but I wanted to make sure. That's why I aplogized in advance.

As far as the Pfp's and NSNH, I can somewhat see why they have chosen to go "Incognito". I myself am tired of being made to feel as if I am wrong for wanting posts to be made in the correct forum and for off-topic posts to be done in moderation.

This comment should not be taken as my acceptance of the Pfp's and NSNH. I myself feel that the arguments (But in some cases, not the manner or words in which they have been conveyed) of those handles stand on their own merit. The arguments put forth by the Pfp's and NSNH would, IMO have a LOT more credibility if they came from the "Real Handles".

Just let this pass. Ignore it, let it pass. Not everyone in society behaves wonderfully according to the "rules." Just let it pass.

I don't believe any scheme for IP logging, identity verification, or moderation, will make FT better. It will slow things down, add fuel to the fires.

Look, most posts on FT are great, helpful, a real contribution.

Just stop feeding the fires and concentrate on these 99% of posts.

Scribbler: An IP address is the "address" of your specific connection to the internet. It can easily be traced back to a "bundle" of a specific ISP getting at least as close as the node your are on, sometimes much, much closer.

Using this process it was really rather simple (for someone who knows what they are doing...and I'm certainly NOT saying I'm such a guy) to determine with a 99.99% degree of certainty that Ozstamps was Janejet. Oz made the mistake of replying to an e-mail from me as Janejet. That IP address was similar enough to IP headings on e-mails from Ozstamps to create virtual certainty as to the identity of janejet (and I dont mind revealing that fact now that Oz has refused to do the honorable thing and confess).

That's what I am asking Randy to do. Have his staff log IP addresses on posts just as e-mails automatically do, and if someone is abusive or "under suspicion" Randy's staff can simply go back and look at the log. If there is a pattern, it will be readily apparent whether or not folks are screwing around with multiple handles and who is doing it. Just the threat of this happening should be enough to have a severe chilling effect on flames and multiple handles.

I agree with PG that this will help not only with janejet, molsonmiler, etc, but that it will also chill other multiple handles whether they create a ficticious life for themselves or not.

As Essexjay points out, it could not possibly be less time consuming or difficult for Team Randy to do. Check a toggle and refer to the log when necessary. Simple.

As for this practice making people think twice about posting here, well, I guess that's pertty much my intent. Think twice before you flame. Think three times before you create a pseudonym.

Look folks, IMHO, people are yelling "FIRE" in this crowded theater, and it is well within reason to implement simple and unintrusive controls on such "speech" for the greater good of the community.

Anyway, Randy already knows all this since he implemented the practice once before. I'm sorry for going on and on. It's Randy's house, he sets the rules. Just trying to make a helpful suggestion...

http://www.anonymizer.com/

Thannks Koko and Dorian. I get it now. Still don't know what the solution is, but we definitely need one.

essxjay:

I respectfully request that you not take my words out of context and then chastize me for posting comments on a seemingly irrelevant point. Please be careful to note that the portion of my post you selected was in response to some very valid and relevant comments made by "motnot" in an earlier post under this topic.

Thank you.

Ya, sure Anonymizer...slower than h*ll. How 'bout www.freedom.net?? Not there is a way around IP!!!


Dorian

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flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel recommendations: http://www.flyersplaces.com
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

I agree with kokonutz.If a post can be checked AFTER the fact-once a person is under suspicion. then why would that be a problem?If another member has a reason to suspect- then Randys staff check it.The only thing that will really do is make it inconvenient for someone to constantly be 2 identities as they would need 2 isps and 2 computers.Would anyone really bother thenI hope that makes sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My IP address at work, on my DSL or cable modem line, and through each of my dial-up ISP's (I can use Compuserve or Earthlink) is different. (actually, they are all DHCP, so they won't be exactly the same even from time-to-time).

Someone with the resources of the NSA or CIA could no doubt trace all of this and find a person. But it is a bit much to ask of the Flyertalk staff.