Phil

We have just moved much of the significant discussion on Latin Pass to private emails, on the assumption that Latin Pass or Hilton or Marriott may be spooked if they know what we are planning to do with our LP bonus miles. I am a reluctant participant in this privatizing, but I do participate because I want the shared information. Now I read in the Marriott forum that we should "keep mum", be quiet about, hold back on pointing out great features in some of the Marriott rewards. Marriott, it is feared, might withdraw them if we keep talking. I think that's nonsense, because Marriott surely knows well enough what they're offering.

I find the spread of this open-discussion-anxiety troubling. If we can't share our own insights into great deals or read others',what purposes are left for Flyer Talk? Complaining ?

Boomer

There is always the ability to complain about too many people complaining.

doc

"I find the spread of this open-discussion-anxiety troubling. If we can't share our own insights into great deals or read others',what purposes are left for Flyer Talk? Complaining ?"

FWIW, Phil, I agree!

There might be some SPECIAL occasion(s) but generally....

And BTW- I'm one of those FT'ers who prefers some degree of anonymity!

dhacker

Phil, I think you are generally right. What is the point of FT or InsideFlyer magazine if you can't share and learn about the hidden gems in loyalty programs? However, the LP situation may be a bit different. They seem have history of quick reactions. When publicity about the big promo got too great, the cut-off eligibilty. A few days after the Marriott transfer thread started, the capped transfers at 30k/month. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not. If I ran a small program with big liabilities like LP, I'd want to know what was coming too.

The private discussion group is just an effort to even the playing field between LP and the LP millionaires. We never know when LP will make a change and now they never know every nuance about our plans to use the miles or fight a program change. They can still make reactionary changes, but at least they will have to wait a bit longer, until actual rewards are requested.

Fortunately, the new restrictions are not that bad, and most of the private discussions have been very positive.

PG

While I agree with Phil, dhacker has made some very convincing arguments about the LP situation.

But this is a complex issue going beyond the LP issue. Randy once had an editorial which implied that targeted promotions would be jeopardised because of internet discussions. See some related discussion to that in: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001957.html

As we discuss tips and loopholes, the companies will also learn them. But that in itself is not bad. And there are very convincing arguments for free speech and open dissemination of information.

goldelite

Common sense should be the key. Yes some companies watch these boards it seems. And yes at times some on these boards act quite foolishly and actually write to companies to alert them to miles others have acrued via apparent loopholes. Catman did this recently with a thread posting on the Hilton board to Adam to apparently prove some point. Adam from Hilton responded on the Hilton board and on this thread below.

NYC1 seems to have lost 50,000 points from it, and possibly myself and others, some of whom may not even realise it yet. Common sense in my book is NOT to write and tip off airline/hotel plans when your associates clearly have already received 50,000 free miles, and then having them taken away as a result of what to me was a very foolish enquiry to Hilton in the first instance. It reminds me of the schoolyard snitch syndrome. It is my bet Catman's Hilton points were not affected.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/002818.html

Gaucho100K

This is an interesting issue. Im currently asking some of the veteran FTalkers for advice on how to deal with such a case. IMO it would be great if this thread gets read & answered by as many of us as possible.

I basically agree with the common-sense approach, which for me means that some things should be discussed privately (ie. via email). Im still awaiting a few responses from some FTalkers to see if this view changes.



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Gaucho100K

PremEx

It's been my experience with United that they learn nothing about these "loopholes" here on FlyerTalk, that they didn't find out about or already knew about (and sometimes purposefully look the other way) or would have found out about from some other source.

Remember, there are many other sources of information flowing into the airlines...reservations, ticket counter, ticket office, gate agents, customer service reps, flight attentants, auditors, customers...not to mention the other boards and newsgroups out there.

The Latin Pass deal may be something unique as it seems to be a stratagy that some are planning, rather than a real loophole issue. But generally I believe that open discussion will benefit the most, especially as there are so many more lurkers than posters out there. And those lurkers would never benefit from a private email chain.

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 09-27-2000).]

essxjay

Hilton's terms of eligibility regarding the UA Nights promo (announced +/- a year ago) were very specfic. That is, registration for the promotion had to have been completed prior to Hilton awarding points. The terms were stated right off the bat, long before Catman ever weighed in on the topic here on FT. It's coincidental that points were withdrawn retroactively from some of the newbies accounts. But what really bugs me is the suggestion that those who signed up contrary to Hilton's stated T&C regarding this promo still felt entitled to the points just because they came late to the party. Hey, sometimes you miss out. EZ come/EZ go.

To reiterate, it was the nature of the offer and not the fact of Catman's post that resulted in Hilton deducting points from NYC1's account retroactively.

[This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 09-28-2000).]

Indurain

I agree with PremEx and Essxjay, particularly on UA and the Hilton Nights promo. Why are we so insistent that negative actions are the result of posts here, but positive actions are NEVER credited here? Perhaps the "True Flyer" bonus from UA is the result of all the complaints they've read on the UA board? Maybe fare sales start because a particular airline's board has been slow for the last 3 months? What if the Hilton Nights promo came about because trip reports gave the Sheraton better ratings than Hilton? Or maybe all the bad flight attendants and gate agents we complained about were tracked down by the respective airlines and fired? These are equally ridiculous examples, aren't they?

This board may be my only source of info, but it certainly is not the case for airlines or hotels. There's no free lunch, and if you find something that doesn't belong to you, be prepared to give it back.

kokonutz

It's hard pill to swallow, but this is my final realization vis a vis the advent of electronic upgrades on UA.

I was a proponenet of keeping some of the less kosher loopholes somewhat quiet on two theories:
1) If a few "in the know" take advantage of a loophole, it is fairly easy for a service provider to continue to look the other way. If a torrent of people flood the loophole, it becomes a larger liability for the provider to continue to wink and nod.
2) It encouraged people to attend FT events and such where loophole free-for-alls and one-upspersonship are commonplace.

I still believe in the logic of these theories. But I also accept the information I've heard from employees and others here that no matter how little we talk about it here, there are hundreds of other internet sites that openly discuss strategies that would turn the stomach of most flyertalkers that I know.

The reality of information and the internet is that any attempt to stifle or control it is peeing into the wind...

BlondeBomber

koko: . . . into a hurricane?

Flying Dutchman

I agree with the principle of sharing freely on FlyerTalk, but the private LatinPass discussion group is a very special case. LatinPass has consistently acted upon the messages posted here in a way that has significantly diminished the value of their bonus miles. They have changed rules without notice and have applied those rules retroactively. I'm not talking about removing loopholes, either: I'm talking about completely ignoring rules in their member guide. Dhacker characterized the list very well: It is an attempt to level the playing field between LP and the LP bonus-holders.

dhammer53

It's hard to believe that a maximum of what, maybe 50 to 100 folks here may take advantage of some great deal. Ok, 200.

That's not going to make or break any program.

And let's face it, all the discussion here is basically free advertising for these programs, to all the right people.

The program makes the $$.

Dan