Janejet - IMHO Catman was responding to "Sorry no-one else has any info for you yet in the 21 hours since you asked ... far too much navel gazing and reminiscing and back lapping going on lately it seems, to find time to welcome and assist someone NEW here, which is kind of ironic." I think he was just making the point not everyone read every thread nor do we check FT every single day. IMHO.

Doho seemd to be saying his request seemed to be not welcomed based on the responses he/she received? Seemed like some program info was sought not lengthy reasons why others were too busy to assist. Sorry, I might be reading it wrong.

DoHo (and anyone else who raises questions about my long dissertation about my schedule
For the record: it was in no way directed at you. I just tried to point out to about the veteran Flyertalkers: "far too much navel gazing and reminiscing and back slapping going on lately it seems, to find time to welcome and assist someone NEW here,
which is kind of ironic."

We are all limited by time as you are Doho, but I took ozstamps comments as a personal insult to me.

DOHO: You made a good post looking for info (you stayed on a flying topic! Excellent!

The dififcultly is that it required a LOT of information. I would go with PremEx's suggestions and write Inside FLyer for some information.

and Jane: I would take some time to get to know me and other flyers .. I have made made friends over the years I've ben here and I've tried to be welcoming to everyone. (my best buddy wanderlust calls me Flyertalker's best friend; PRemEx says I'm the soul of the board!) There are many good people and we are all looking forward to your's and Doho's future contributions.

Catman ... that remark is offensive to me. I did not name YOU, or anyone. Nor did I intend to imply any one person was involved. The singular was not used or implied or meant. I suspect you may have been the only one to read yourself into it. Had I meant to direct it toward anyone there would be NO doubt about whom - I am sure most will agree on that at least.

The facts are self evident ... this first time poster asks a very simple question, and is ignored for nearly 24 hours. In that time there must have been 100+ posters on MANY different threads in this exact same "FT Community" board posting vigorously about how wonderful and terrific and helpful this "community" always is/was/must be.

These were largely reminiscing/naval gazing/back slapping etc - no doubt about it IMHO - I made no comment on whether that was positive or negative - and my remark most clearly was not directed at any one person in particular. Many posts were excellent and astute observations. My only comment was that it was ironic a totally new poster with an intelligent well typed query was totally ignored during this "feel good fest"!

I did not say I was referring to "Veteran FlyerTalkers" as you infer above. I did not use or infer those words at all - YOU did. Many of the excellent posts in the past 24 hours have been by very new members - a point that may have escaped your notice.

No one else even welcomed this new person, even if they were unable/unwilling to assist. Yet the same threads have regulars ruefully recalling their first posts being met with a gruff: "go look it up in search - newbie" or simply being ignored. I very politely pointed out this thread was more suitable for "General Travel Talk" but a new visitor would hardly know that.

The topic "FF Statistics" would I feel sure have been opened by most here in case it interested/assisted them, so I reject the claim that people "did not have time" to look at it. What nonsense - the thread was looked at by dozens of people here - they simply did not respond. Their right entirely, but the poster must have been aware dozens were responding to other threads here - big time as the record shows.

I took the trouble to provide a detailed answer for the only FF program I had info on. If no-one else was prepared to bother assisting doho ..... their call. But do NOT flame and insult me for doing so. Had I not posted, the thread would have died without trace most probably with no response. It was already half way down the page. However the 16 posts in 6� hours after mine changed all that, and my apologies in advance DOHO that this has happened on your first ever visit. I hope if some of the posts above have not already scared you away, that you do stay around, and hopefully look back on this fondly in 12 months time!

And doho I hope you also receive some more actual information after this post and not a raging flame, that in this thread anyway, will NOT involve me fuelling it further. Several wise heads whom I respect have asked me to take that advice on another thread 24-36 hours ago and I acceded.

There was no call whatever to use the quote above IMHO Catman, and I repeat it is offensive to me, and at least to the 3 others who alerted me to it, (thank you) and I do ask you politely to consider editing it out if you indeed are "the soul of the board" as you remind the new visitors. If this thread ends up in the recently all too familar rage, some people posting after this point really should buy themselves a shiny new mirror.

Catman, had you emailed me direct, as you are publicly so keen to urge others to do, rather than simply insult others on board to bystander third parties, I would have responded privately, as I have done to many here lately. You did not, and this is why I am posting now. I left this post for over 2� hours just in case you had typed in haste, and later edited, but not so it seems.

I am not seeking a flame here. I have no beef with you on any matter other than this, and will in fact NOT post further on this thread to satisfy all concerned that is NOT my intention by posting this message. The only thing I will post is "thank you" if you withdraw your comment. I am flying interstate for a few days shortly, so you and others can ignore this ... or post away - your choice, you are the CATCOP and can largely call the shots.

I just feel you were way out of line posting what you did to a new user about anyone. Your 5.06 am post was sarcastic and pointed enough, but within usual limits of many responses to me, and was a very different wording to your latest one. Had you left it at that, I'd not be typing this. You started your own thread right here only yesterday and said: "let's stop attacking each other and get back to sharing some fun stories of flying and tips and stuff. Please!!"

There is a danger your post might look very much like the "do as I say, and not do as I do" syndrome. If you have a persecution complex directed at me you are absolutely wrong. I would have posted this same message to anyone who used the words above.

And to play the devil's advocate if I may - so would many here I suspect respond, had another senior boarder posted it about them.

Good Evening.


------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 08-31-2000).]

I didn't know it was our obligation to read every thread and respond within 24 hours. Let that be a warning to every FlyerTalker out there! New Members, Lurkers, and Evangelists alike. No more dilly dallying about now. Anything else is consider "ignoring." Get to work!

Even if you don't have an answer to give.

Each and every person that was on FlyerTalk during that period should be ashamed of themselves! All of you! Except ozstamps.


[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 08-31-2000).]

doho: I think PremEx's suggestion is the fastest way for you to compile the various info.

The other assorted digressions posted above are unfortunate and rather depressing. I understand neither the continued need to provoke, nor the continued need to fire back - especially when neither helps doho.

Sigh. Hopefully next week will be a little friendlier (dare I hope?).

A happy Labor Day to those of you (United)Stateside! Good luck in your search, doho - feel free to let us know if you find out anything special!

As I reviewed the very long listing of questions you wished answers to, not only did I perceive the possible answers to be voluminous, but also very PROPRIETARY and thus not in any authoritative public domain. Furthermore most FT people would not have the spare weeks and months to gather it for you. You certainly knew or should have known this.

Your reasons for requesting such data also do not really make sense to this nice FF. IMHO idle curiosity is not an ethical, legal or moral reason to seek specific private proprietary business statistics which any competitive business would obviously guard at great expense, from public disclosure. Even if I knew any of the answers (maybe I overheard a conversation somewhere etc), it is doubtful I would feel comfortable in relating such to you or others. Business ethics is the main consideration here.

Bringing it to an end!
- Catman, i never took anything personal no worries at all.
- all the guys that are fighting out there: it is not worse a second of your time, especially as the whole discussion is based on missunderstandings!
- "Shareholder" and "MisterNice": I received most of the information requested from Randy who guided my through the "Webflyer"-pages. So my quetsions to you both:
1. Wouldn't he be the first to beware of PROPRIETARY constraints?
2. Would you like to teach HIM about "business ethics" or are you a selective adviser?
My idea is to model the mile-issued/mile-redeemed relation and growth of most FFPs and see if there is an increasing sensitiveness to the mile "currency" (especially in Europe). For this reason the request figures might sound a little "focused" but they are all related to this same subject. A model is based on many little spots of information ... which I was hoping to get through the power of a community. And not because people invest time for searching the information but because everyone already has a piece of information in his mind.
Once again, forget about those figures, stop the verbal fights (I'll do so too!) and let's talk about how we could increase the no. of miles on our accounts.
Enjoy your next trips!

Thank you doho, and welcome to FlyerTalk. I hope you next trip is enjoyable as well.

I actually read your initial post shortly after it appeared. Unfortunately, I was/am unable to provide any of the information you reqested. If I do come across any of the information you were seeking, I'll surely post it.

Welcome doho! Nice to have another level-headed participant.

BTW, were you told about the initiation fee? It is to be paid in Swiss Chocolate to all flyertalkers whose screen names begin with "k."

As for your specific question, I agree that even the best estimates you will get from Randy will be just that: estimates. I for one would not bet the chocolate shoppe based on even his numbers. Just as an example, I've spoken with lobbyists for UA who claim that there are in 2000 33,000 1k flyers. About 2 weeks later I sat on a flight SJU-ORD next to a corporate trainer for UA (who was very mellow and forthcoming returing from the V.I.) who said that figure was more like 50,000 1ks. If the people inside the organization have such wildly varying numbers, then I doubt anyone outside the company has anywhere near accuarate info, IMHO.

And, BTW, sorry for not responding immediately. I am now more fully aware of my obligations.

doho writes:

I tip my tiara to you sir or madame, as the case may be. That is unequivocally the most insightful post of the week, and one of which I and, I am sure, your fellow countryman, and FlyerTalk's King and Diplomat Extraordinaire, Rudi, would be extremely proud (were he not occupied galivanting around the world accumulating miles and points, as kings and diplomats are wont to do).

I sincerely hope that you will continue to grace our boards with your insight and mature common sense, and I, for one, will be most happy to share with you whatever few miles and points secrets and strategies that I have learned.


[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 09-01-2000).]

To doho:

Welcome, doho! May you learn (and teach) much here.

To most everyone else:

I am saddened and disappointed by what is happening to our boards lately.

Good to see you hung in there doho. It does seem like some here are more humble and forgiving than others and someone should be apologizing for comments made above, if he states he is the "soul of this board". If you are wrong you should accept it with grace, say sorry and move on. Only my opinion.

Determinedly OMNI:

I understand more of the 'secret language' than Rudi realized...

Welcome to FlyerTalk, doho



[This message has been edited by baobab (edited 09-01-2000).]

quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Wouldn't he be the first to beware of PROPRIETARY constraints?
2. Would you like to teach HIM about "business ethics" or are you a selective adviser?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am positive Randy P receives proprietary information re the airlines etc in the course of operating his nice WebFlyer etc business(s). I am just as positive Randy P does not pass this very valuable information to any of his business associates, his friends, this board etc. No ethical person would.

You apparently do not realize all or almost all of the information you requested is proprietary (some companies refer to it as company confidential information). Confidentiality agreements, secrecy agreements, non-disclosure agreements etc exist, are signed, and are strongly enforced for this very purpose (I suggest you look further into this area). I have signed up to 12 in any given year.

And if you do not think your requested information is not confidential, then I wonder why you wrote the following in your original post......."desperate after several days on the internet, I'm still looking for frequent traveler statistics. Do you have any answers to the following questions (even if you just know details on your own FFP(s) - you know about the power of a community)......".

Yeah, I nicely know the power of community, and I also know my obligations to it too. And obligations to companies with which I have a business relation with.

Each year or two I send a hefty payment to Randy P for FF-related services he ingeniously thought up and successfully marketed. I do/did so fully assuming he will not give out my name, my ff numbers, my ff mileage/point data, my address, my credit card no etc. He hasn't in the past, and I am certain he won't in the future. I am not so sure about, well, others....